Intel X58 Motherboard Roundup - What does $300 Get You?
by Gary Key on December 5, 2008 3:00 PM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
MSI Eclipse X58
Features
The MSI Eclipse X58 is a feature laden board from a hardware and software viewpoint. It should be considering the $350 price tag, although there is a $30 mail-in-rebate at present. The almost universal Realtek RTL-8111C PCIe Gigabit Ethernet controllers are utilized in tandem; a riser card featuring the Creative Lab's CA0110-IBG chipset provides HD audio and EAX 5.0 capabilities; JMicron’s JMB 363/362/322 chipsets are tabbed for eSATA, IDE, and additional SATA port duties; VIA's VT6308P provides IEEE 1394a support; and the Intel ICH10R is utilized for primary storage purposes.
The BIOS is designed for overclocking duties, although it's not as comprehensive as those from ASUS or Gigabyte. However, it is fair to say that several of the options that ASUS and Gigabyte provide will never be touched by about 95% of us when overclocking. Our main knock against the BIOS is that it is not as user friendly as the others in this roundup. We do not care for the +/- voltage settings as it becomes confusing for the user to understand exactly what effect their changes had on the particular option, especially without knowing what the base voltage is set at.
MSI supports stock memory speeds up to 2133MHz on the i920/i940 processors along with opening up QPI link speeds from a standard 4.800 GT/s up to 6.400 GT/s, which is standard on the i965 Extreme processor. The board fully supports 24GB of DDR3 memory. We have a 24GB kit arriving shortly for testing so we cannot confirm compatibility yet, but we trust MSI in this regard.
In the meantime, we have not had any problems running 12GB with our Patriot or G.Skill DDR3-1600 kits up to 1600 at 9-8-8-24 1T timings, although we needed about 1.68V for absolute stability with the i920 at stock speeds. Dropping the command rate to 2T allows 1.64V operation with the current BIOS. Overall, memory performance is very competitive with the other boards and improving in each BIOS release. However, this is the only six slot board that we have been unable to clock a 12GB configuration up to a 191x21 setting. The board stops around a 175 Bclk with an 8x memory multiplier that results in a DDR3-1528 speed. The board will clock up to a 191 Bclk with the memory multiplier at 6x, which results in a DDR3-1146 setting. MSI is working on improving this area.
The Eclipse board contains three PCI Express 2.0 x16 slots that operate in x16/x16 mode for 2x SLI/CF. The third x16 slot operates in x4 mode regardless of the second slot population. 3x SLI/CF configurations run in x16/x8/x8 mode on the EVGA and Gigabyte boards. We did not notice any performance differences between the x16/x16 or x16/x8 operation in 2x CF with our HD 4870 cards. However, we just received a new BIOS from MSI that allows 3X SLI/CF to operate properly. We will update the article in a few days with a comparison between the boards utilizing all three x16 slots. We had no problems running our ASUS Xonar D2X or Highpoint Rocket RAID cards in slots two or three.
The Board
The Eclipse X58 is MSI's current flagship board with the recently introduced Platinum X58 filling a void in the low end X58 market with a $220 price tag. While $220 is an awful lot for a motherboard, it's practically a bargain in this particular market sector. Of course, you give up a few items like SLI compatibility, an additional x16 slot, and the JMicron SATA ports, but for a lot of users those features are not that important.
MSI went a different direction with this board compared to earlier designs; gone is the roller coaster or circular heatpipe design, as is the traditional fire engine red color scheme that is now a subdued black and blue color palette. While colors do not determine the performance of a board, they do tend to make a difference in first impressions. We like the new color scheme and sincerely appreciate a more traditional heat pipe setup. In fact, MSI skipped on an elaborate heatpipe setup found on other boards and concentrated on cooling the voltage circuitry separately, although the northbridge and southbridge are still linked together.
The CPU area is fairly open and our larger air coolers did not pose a problem. The Eclipse board features a two-phase power delivery system for the northbridge and for the memory subsystem. A six-phase power delivery design is utilized for the processor, half that of the Gigabyte and ASUS boards. However, this did not adversely affect the overclocking capabilities of the board. MSI utilizes high quality solid-state capacitors and ferrite core chokes on the board.
The general layout is very good as MSI has managed to situate the vast number of ports, slots, and hardware in a manner that keeps them from interfering with installed peripherals. MSI managed to squeeze three PCI Express 2.0 x16 slots (x16/x16/x4), two PCIe x1 slots, and two PCI slots. This arrangement allows 3X Crossfire or SLI and still leaves a single PCIe x1 slot open. However, using a double slot card in the third slot will make it extremely difficult to utilize the power, reset, IEEE 1394a, and USB ports. Our opinion about 3X CF/SLI is not that high unless you are benchmarking for 3DMark records, so we appreciate the fact that a 2X CF/SLI arrangement will leave a PCIe x1, PCI, and PCIe x16 (x4 electrical) slot open.
On the bottom of the board you will find onboard buttons for power, reset, and the D-LED 2 display module. The D-LED 2 is handy for a quick glance during the POST process or you can have it display VCore or northbridge voltages along with pinpointing a particular temperature on the board with the included 20" probe. The D-LED does not display hex codes, instead relying on short hand messages like "DDR Ini" during post processes.
While we appreciate the D-LED, it is really only good for windowed cases or open platform testing. We think MSI should have included an attachment cable that allowed placement outside of the case. Also, the unit does not live up to its potential by providing additional hardware monitoring capabilities such as temperatures, fan speeds, or other voltage readings. Of course, MSI has monitoring software that accomplishes these tasks, but we think a hardware solution would be better, especially considering the cost of the board.
The IO panel features eight USB 2.0 ports, two Ethernet jacks, an IEEE 1394a port, and two eSATA ports courtesy of the JMB 362 chipset. MSI also includes an expansion slot backplate that allows an additional two eSATA ports via any of the board's internal SATA connections. An audio output panel is missing since MSI utilizes a riser card that features Creative Lab's CA0110-IBG audio chipset.
Our first reaction was very positive until we looked at the chipset specifications and realized that hardware audio processing capabilities - including the EAX 5.0 implementation - are done through software and the CPU. Also, most of the software features from a standalone X-FI card are not available in the software package that MSI provides. They did include access to Creative's 24-bit Crystalizer and speaker virtualization features along with other hardware settings.
Of course the big question is the audio quality provided by this solution. RightMark Audio Analyzer indicated poor THD and inter-channel leakage, but in actual usage we could not tell any real differences between the Creative and Realtek solutions in music playback quality. The ADI solution on the ASUS board sounded a bit clearer and dynamic in music playback. In gaming, we thought the Creative solution was slightly better than the ADI chipset and noticeably better than the Realtek solutions on the Gigabyte and EVGA boards. If gaming or music playback is a priority, we still suggest an add-in card for best performance.
The Application
MSI features a unique power saving system on the Eclipse. They include a GreenPower Genie pass-through connector that attaches to the 24-pin ATX power supply cable and a cable that attaches to the 24-pin ATX connector on the motherboard. There is also a two-pin cable that attaches to the Genie and the motherboard that works in conjunction with the the GreenPower software to monitor and dynamically reduce power usage.
This system will automatically scale the number of active power phases for the processor, memory, and northbridge. We noticed savings of 9W at idle, so it actually works. In fact, it provides better results than the ASUS EPU-6 or Gigabyte DES power saving systems. During testing, it was able to switch fast enough so we did not have to worry about program crashes when utilizing GreenPower. The one drawback is that the pass-through connector and cable is a bit cumbersome to use in smaller cases.
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Zak - Saturday, December 6, 2008 - link
I still had working PII and PIII mobos that I trashed this year, not because they were bad but because these platforms were outdated. These mobos still worked 100% after what 7-8 years??? Each mobo I bough within the last 3-4 years never lasted more than 2 years without some major malfunction (some controller dying, memory slots failing, etc). The boards are getting more expensive and less reliable. There is an obsession with overclocking without any effort to offer perfect stability. Most users want a good balance of speed and stability, and as we all know one isn't any good without the other. Besides, overclocking yields minimal real life gains, unless you do something really extreme, and how many people do extreme overclocking??? Mobo makers should focus on stability and features first. Eh...We live in beta culture:(Z.
Griswold - Saturday, December 6, 2008 - link
What does AT get for being a quasi outsourced QA branch of these mobo manufacturers? To me it looks like you're being taken advantage of - its great that you work with them to get stuff fixed, but is there any compensation for the time invested other than the good feeling?Syntience - Saturday, December 6, 2008 - link
Some of us have non-parallelizable applications (in our case, a certain kind of AI research) that require vast amounts of memory but don't require that much in the way of processing power. We buy the motherboards with the highest number of memory slots and fill those up with the largest memory modules we can reasonably afford. At the moment (late 2008) that means 4GB DDR2 modules. Boards like SuperMicro H8QMi-2+ have 32 DIMM sockets on the motherboard which means our current sweet spot is 128GB.We expect motherboards to operate in these fully loaded configurations, and so far we've been quite lucky. But we'd appreciate manufacturers and reviewers consistently testing boards in whatever max memory capacity the manufacturer is advertising.
Incidentally, we'd like to see motherboard manufacturers produce systems with DIMM sockets on daughter boards that could be stacked to some depth for even more memory, or even return to backplane/bus based designs with multiple separate memory boards. I don't know whether this is economically feasible to do with current memory interface chip sets. It clearly is possible, since these kinds of systems are available in the turnkey server market.
- Monica
LTG - Saturday, December 6, 2008 - link
What you guys are doing is outstanding and exactly the right thing.What's the saying, sunshine is the best disinfectant?
That's what manufacturers need - as much light as possible shown on their quality and stability issues.
Let the best companies reap the rewards just as the top automakers do with their reliability measures.
DaveLessnau - Saturday, December 6, 2008 - link
The reason manufacturers have thrown reliability, stability, and maintainability (i.e., Quality) out the window is because of the way the review sites review their products. Back in the day, places like PC Magazine would do yearly articles that talked about which manufacturer produced, essentially, the highest quality products. Try to find something like that today. If a board doesn't have glowing fins, can't overclock to a bajillion GHz, use a terabyte of RAM, run 27 video cards in tandem, have every doodad imaginable stuck onto it, roar like a jet-engine because of the cooling requirements, and require a KW-level power supply, the review sites don't even cover it (I'm using an Intel DP45SG right now -- I double-dog dare you to find a review of it anywhere (I mean, it's only a fairly new board from the pre-eminent computer company on the planet)). Plus, every review automatically focuses on the over-clocking aspects of the boards. Overclocking is a fine thing to mention ONCE THE BASIC QUALITY OF THE BOARD AND THE COMPANY BEHIND IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED.For instance, this DP45SG. I bought it for two reasons: 1) it (supposedly) does exactly what I need it to do, and 2) Intel (supposedly) provides good support and reliable boards. There are no reviews out there because it's not an "enthusiast" board from an "enthusiast" company. So, I had to buy it blind. After setting it up, I found that (this is from my Newegg review):
"Under Vista Ultimate (x64), drives connected to the eSATA port on the back do not get recognized as external or removable after the machine has entered and exited sleep mode. Without having slept, there's no problem. I confirmed this with 3 separate drives in 2 external enclosures.
- The Dolby Control Center software doesn't exist in a 64-bit version. I searched Intel's site and the web in general and found nothing. Intel doesn't even know when there will be a 64-bit version.
- The Intel Desktop Control Center software isn't available for the current BIOS. According to the web site: "The current BIOS release for Intel Desktop Board DP45SG does not support the Intel Desktop Control Center. A new version of the Intel Desktop Control Center will be posted here when a compatible BIOS becomes available."
- The Intel Integrator Assistant software isn't available for 64-bit versions of either Vista or XP."
The first three of those bullets are some of the core things I needed. They're advertised for the board, but there are no reviews. So, no one knows about it.
Then, take a look at support. Intel just released a new BIOS for the board (0102). You can take a look at ABXZone in the Intel DP45SG (Skyburg) thread starting on page 38 for comments on this. In a nutshell, Intel released a BIOS that sets processor speeds and voltages wrong and killed SpeedStep if you just LOOKED at the processor settings. Granted, talking to their technical support was somewhat refreshing compared to other companies. But, finally, I (and others) reverted back to the previous BIOS.
The horrifying thing is that this has nowhere to go but down. None of the sites cover this kind of information. So, basic quality just continues to ebb while the companies put more and more focus on the trivial bells and whistles that the "enthusiast" sites focus on.
strikeback03 - Monday, December 8, 2008 - link
I'd guess the most basic answer is that they don't have enough man-hours available to do complete testing on every motherboard available. As far as I can tell, motherboard testing is done by Gary, with some help from Anand and possibly Raja. Guessing by the name of your board, it is a P45-based design. Looking at just ASUS site, they list 12 P45 boards, and based on previous ASUS experience there are probably more which just do not show up properly in the list. How long would it take one or two people to only check basic operation of the 12 listed boards? There are at least two relevant OSes to test under, Vista 32 and 64 bit. Do they test XP as well? Both 32 and 64 bit? How about any forms of Linux, again with both 32 and 64 bit? A previous commenter complained about a certain Logitech keyboard not working, just how many different peripherals should they keep around? And multiply this by however many boards all the other manufacturers have out, and get thm done in time to be relevant before the next chipset revision comes out? For free?As a result I imagine they pick only boards which stand out or they guess will bring the most traffic to the site. This ends up being the overclocking-friendly boards, some uATX boards, and some HTPC friendly boards it seems.
ATWindsor - Saturday, December 6, 2008 - link
Very nice that you focus on stability and things actually working, to many sites give our "recommended"-stmaps in an uncritical fashion even when boards work poorly. This makes the site even more excellent, Goog work!poohbear - Saturday, December 6, 2008 - link
why are u guys accomodating the mobo manufacturers?!?!?! i understand you're one of the bigger review sites, but seriously if the product doesnt work just say that in your review, dont even bother contacting their engineers for help cause they should've taken care of that before it was even released. I dont read your reviews to see who i have to call or where i have to look to get a certain feature on the mobo to work. I know i sure as hell won't be able to call Evga's engineer and ask for help when my $300 mobo doesnt work. Gimme a break. I just want to know if it works out of the box.I'm glad to hear u guys are now going buy a mobo off the shelf to review the same product we all get, but didnt u do that all along?!!? its pretty disturbing to think u have always been reviewing cherry picked products. i'll have to read your reviews with a grain of salt UNLESS you specifically state where you got the product from. Didnt it ever occur to you that the products the manufacturer sends to u might have been unfairly optimized??
thorgal73 - Saturday, December 6, 2008 - link
... motherboard makers that don't care about finishing their products before they come to the market, that is.A simple example is DFI, but lately even the tier 1 manufacturers are guilty of it. I personally pulled al lot of my hair out while reviewing the DFI X48-T3RS over at Madshrimps.be. I've spent 2 months on that one, before I had anything decent to write about, and even now the review feels incomplete.
Did any of you notice that there never was a DFI X48-T3RS review here at Anand ? There was a preview with the Corsair 2133 memory, but the promised review never made it. Now you understand why...
I can only side with Anand here that something needs to be done urgently. I myself am as sick and tired than any other reviewer to spend ages on a review, while having my boss at my back asking "what's taking so long" ;-) I agree with the opinion that unfinished boards do not deserve publication, problem is, no boards that we (reviewers) get in our hands are finished, as they're mostly rev. 1.0 (or worse) with very early biosses.
Only solution is waiting with the risk that other sites will beat you to the review, and your own review will barely surface on the web any more....
danger22 - Saturday, December 6, 2008 - link
you should refuse to publish articles with boards that don't work out of the box. why give them any publicity?