Why do they put the weakest GPUs on the weakest CPUs and the strongest GPUs on the strongest CPUs? Most of the high end CPUs are only in the higher end laptops alongside discrete GPUs, so you won't even use the IGP. Alternately, the cheap laptops should have the strongest GPU paired with the weakest CPUs to offer up better performance.
Intel does this with their desktop IGPs and it makes no sense there either. The IGP ends up being wasted silicon in higher end systems, just taking up space/heat/power next to a pair of GTX580s.
I'm not aware of any laptops that pair a discrete GPU with a Llano APU (ugh, hate that word) so it makes sense to me for what AMD is doing for their mobile products.
Agreed, that doesn't make much sense. And if it does - why not also offer alternatives? Instead they've got a hundred of almost-similar CPUs, no matter if they've got a 6 or 8 in front of it.
And why the f****** h*** does a 45 W dual cores with few shaders not even reach 3 GHz at max Turbo? Especially when a 35 W part is allowed to reach just the same clock...
Single threaded performance is the Achilles heel of these chips, and no amount of GPU power and CPU cores they throw at the problem will change this.
I definitely agree that all of this GPU fragmentation makes no sense - motherboard integrated graphics were always the same no matter what CPU you dropped into the socket, and I'd like to see that simplicity come back. As it is it's just one more thing the companies can use to upsell you to the next model.
Intel's mobile Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge CPUs get it right - the same GPU in every processor, even if the clock speed varies a bit. Even AMD's APUs do it better than Sandy Bridge on the desktop, since they've at least got a unified feature set - the IGPs in the new Pentiums and Celerons lose features unrelated to 3D performance that really hurt on the low end.
I'd like to see either (1) a simplified lineup, (2) computers that can toggle between integrated and dedicated graphics regardless of CPU/GPU manufacturer combination, or maybe (3) both. Doubt we'll see it happen though.
Found this: " the HP Pavilion dv- and g-series notebooks offer optional dual graphics (APU graphics plus a discrete/dedicated graphics card) with automatic switching that balances performance with power needs by switching between single- and dual-graphics modes."
An I3 + a slightly better discrete card would probably be better all around, but if the price is right...
FINALY!! Someone else who thinks like that. Put a stronger GPU on the dual core and you don't have to buy the discrete one to go with it. In fact the GPU on all parts should be the same, enough to run a few games on lower res (you wan't that on a laptop, where changing the GPU is not that easy). For higher res the discrete graphics will be added anyway. What they are doing now is dumb. Few people use more that 2 cores, especially on a laptop, so more cores makes less sense. They should pair the 2 cores with stronger graphics and bump all the CPU -s to 2.0GHz minimum. I'd buy that.
Is this a sign that Trinity/Weatherford/Richland aren't going to be coming down the line any time soon? I had assumed they wouldn't take that long to release a bulldozer inspired CPU tied to an updated iGPU at 32 nm, otherwise Intel will run away with their smaller trigate technology and push AMD in the value market that the Llano seems to be doing a commanding job of fighting for (with their higher quality iGPU making for savings on machines almost properly gaming capable without the cost of a discrete chip).
I was initially excited for Trinity following on Llano and bobcat, but now I'm afraid you're right about it using bulldozer architecture. I was looking forward to mobile Trinity, but really don't need (or want) 8 cores on a budget laptop, let alone 4.
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therealnickdanger - Thursday, December 8, 2011 - link
Why do they put the weakest GPUs on the weakest CPUs and the strongest GPUs on the strongest CPUs? Most of the high end CPUs are only in the higher end laptops alongside discrete GPUs, so you won't even use the IGP. Alternately, the cheap laptops should have the strongest GPU paired with the weakest CPUs to offer up better performance.Intel does this with their desktop IGPs and it makes no sense there either. The IGP ends up being wasted silicon in higher end systems, just taking up space/heat/power next to a pair of GTX580s.
Taft12 - Thursday, December 8, 2011 - link
I'm not aware of any laptops that pair a discrete GPU with a Llano APU (ugh, hate that word) so it makes sense to me for what AMD is doing for their mobile products.On the Intel side, it makes less sense.
Meaker10 - Thursday, December 8, 2011 - link
Really? There are quite a few out there that I have seen even in the retail space.MrSpadge - Thursday, December 8, 2011 - link
Agreed, that doesn't make much sense. And if it does - why not also offer alternatives? Instead they've got a hundred of almost-similar CPUs, no matter if they've got a 6 or 8 in front of it.And why the f****** h*** does a 45 W dual cores with few shaders not even reach 3 GHz at max Turbo? Especially when a 35 W part is allowed to reach just the same clock...
Single threaded performance is the Achilles heel of these chips, and no amount of GPU power and CPU cores they throw at the problem will change this.
MrS
Andrew.a.cunningham - Thursday, December 8, 2011 - link
I definitely agree that all of this GPU fragmentation makes no sense - motherboard integrated graphics were always the same no matter what CPU you dropped into the socket, and I'd like to see that simplicity come back. As it is it's just one more thing the companies can use to upsell you to the next model.Intel's mobile Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge CPUs get it right - the same GPU in every processor, even if the clock speed varies a bit. Even AMD's APUs do it better than Sandy Bridge on the desktop, since they've at least got a unified feature set - the IGPs in the new Pentiums and Celerons lose features unrelated to 3D performance that really hurt on the low end.
I'd like to see either (1) a simplified lineup, (2) computers that can toggle between integrated and dedicated graphics regardless of CPU/GPU manufacturer combination, or maybe (3) both. Doubt we'll see it happen though.
nafhan - Thursday, December 8, 2011 - link
Found this:" the HP Pavilion dv- and g-series notebooks offer optional dual graphics (APU graphics plus a discrete/dedicated graphics card) with automatic switching that balances performance with power needs by switching between single- and dual-graphics modes."
An I3 + a slightly better discrete card would probably be better all around, but if the price is right...
SleepyFE - Friday, December 9, 2011 - link
FINALY!! Someone else who thinks like that. Put a stronger GPU on the dual core and you don't have to buy the discrete one to go with it. In fact the GPU on all parts should be the same, enough to run a few games on lower res (you wan't that on a laptop, where changing the GPU is not that easy). For higher res the discrete graphics will be added anyway. What they are doing now is dumb. Few people use more that 2 cores, especially on a laptop, so more cores makes less sense. They should pair the 2 cores with stronger graphics and bump all the CPU -s to 2.0GHz minimum.I'd buy that.
shivoa - Thursday, December 8, 2011 - link
Is this a sign that Trinity/Weatherford/Richland aren't going to be coming down the line any time soon? I had assumed they wouldn't take that long to release a bulldozer inspired CPU tied to an updated iGPU at 32 nm, otherwise Intel will run away with their smaller trigate technology and push AMD in the value market that the Llano seems to be doing a commanding job of fighting for (with their higher quality iGPU making for savings on machines almost properly gaming capable without the cost of a discrete chip).MrSpadge - Thursday, December 8, 2011 - link
Last rumor I hear was that even starting production of Trinity is several months away. Add ~3 for availabilty, if all goes well.MrS
twhittet - Thursday, December 8, 2011 - link
I was initially excited for Trinity following on Llano and bobcat, but now I'm afraid you're right about it using bulldozer architecture. I was looking forward to mobile Trinity, but really don't need (or want) 8 cores on a budget laptop, let alone 4.Valis - Sunday, December 18, 2011 - link
Get lost spammer :(