Bet AMD is doing the same, at these prices they barely are in black and the revenue is not proportional to their market share.. Bet a day or another AMD will be constrained to rise the prices to have enough cash to compete with Intel in software arena. A cpu is not enough.in these days.
Intel set the bar low for consumers before ryzen was around. Both companies are easily able to handle current profit margins even with relative price drops. As well you must factor in that AMD develops quite a bit less total silicon blueprints than intel does. As far as current products are concerned they are selling quite well and total R&D cost is MUCH lower than intel and this trend will probably continue in the future. Yes amd has to sell far less to be profitable compared to intel.
Intel COULD throw their money around and sell products lower while bleeding cash to push amd around. But in the end they would rather use that capital to increase production capability for the future. Pushing amd out of the game doesnt benefit them. Both intel and amd keep x86 / x64 relevant in a market where other architectures could take over given opportunity and time.
About R&D costs, this is the real issue at AMD. Until now they have sold server SKUs without a serious software assistance, and this the main reason the market share remain low after a very good first edition of Epyc. Too bad for AMD, as the market share will grow the will are constrained to hire a big army division of engineers dedicated to customer needs, these needs are huge in these days if you consider that Intel has 15.000 engineers dedicated to custom software for server customers. So the situation is very fluid and sometimes a company has a too good product for its own capabilities. AMD has to double or triple its staff in order to compete with Intel.
The reason the market share remains low is it is the SERVER MARKET. You upgrade when you NEED to upgrade not when a new chip comes out. One of intels lowest stock prices came after itanium came out and papers were complaining that not enough servers were upgrading. But it was still a big win for intel to get into 64bit early.
You have not understood my post and apparently you don't know how modern Companies act. Modern companies avoid to hire a staff of ten software engineers to dedicate to software optimization; a lot simpler is to ask to Intel or IBM or Fujitsu, this is cheaper than a staff of IT guys. AMD can not give thiss service with its tiny 8500 people staff, half of them dedicated to GPUs for gamers.
Yes the server market atc like an elephant and companies are reclutant to change supplier, but the new customers are an intersting fish, still these new customers want a "buy and run" solution, only big tiers can give this, AMD is clearly not one of these. So AMD will sell an intersting number of SKUs to some HPC customers and even to some big farm but hardly will reach a decent market share without changing company profile. Right now AMD is unable to actively sustain its own server products. It will be a paintful adventure try to catch Intel in Server arena, it will take years and years (many).
Obviously AMD execs say the contrary but they well know to be liars.
nope a CPU is more than to make plenty money. especially if u are not throwing tens of billions at buying mcafee, paying cell phone makers to use crappy modems and believing marketing can make atom displace arm in tablets.
also 12nm wafers are probly more than 30% cheaper now than they were when 2700x launched.
Forget your 30% right now, there isn't any sign that a 14nm wafer is cheaper than years ago. This could be true at TSMC, but definitively nope at GF that is medium volume and not a yields champion. It is a fact that ony with 3000 series potentially AMD will begin to make real profit, lets see if Intel will begin a bloody price war. Right now Intel is offering the Coffe Lake lineup at an huge discount in Asia, this is a recent move comfirmed by many. Bet the grow AMD in market share gain will stop in present quarter.
After all the average user do not notice any difference between the two cpu lines. I can't see a new K8 around.
I would wager that AMD has a considerably leaner cost structure than Intel just by virtue of being smaller and no longer owning any fabs.
I agree that they need to make money in order to stay relevant (Intel managing to cut AMD off from revenue back in the original Athlon days almost killed them).
That said, if you look at their CPU price range, they are now populating considerably higher ranges than prior to Ryzen's launch. I don't think they had any > $200 CPU on offer back in 2016 and now the cheapest 7nm Ryzen (3600) starts at $200.
I've got a B350 and 1500X system right now. I'm hoping in a year or two I'll be able to pick up a 3700X at something close to this price point. I doubt I'll really need it but it would still make a pretty solid all around CPU upgrade with better single threaded performance and twice as many cores/threads.
Better to buy the 2700x or the 3600, since they're the same price at the moment?
From benchmarking comparisons, the 3600 looks still better and has more room for overclocking. Is there any reason to go for the 2700x even at this price?
For gaming at least the 3600 would be the better pick. It's faster on single core benchmarks and uses much less power. For heavy multithreaded workloads the 2700x may still over the better overall performance, but less efficiently.
It feels really like AJAX Comments for Drupal - even to the extent of having had a similar bug related to posting a second comment in the wrong place, which I eventually fixed in my own setup (was just referring to the wrong variable somewhere). But that has an edit feature, so I'm not sure why this wouldn't (maybe an early version).
If its that outdated, you'd think there would be well-known exploits that would permit easy edits and changes. That'd be a thing to look into, though I'm not advocating someone break the site nefariously, just that if there is a hole, it gets pointed out so that it forces AT to finally modernize the comment system.
I just bought mine yesterday actually, waiting on the MSI x570 gaming edge wifi to ship, out of stock/back order everywhere I see .. also added RRX 570 MK2 OC 8gb .. 32gb 3200 CL16 ram will also make it "snappier" than my in use Phenom II running 980+ speeds with 1866 class ( the new stuff will be more bandwidth and usable lower latency) paired with Sammy 970 pro 512gb and cooled Deepcool Gammaxx 400 in Fractal Design Define C.... I was VERY tempted to go 2700x route as it was within a few $ of the 3600, but, when price drop to $284 last night, I snagged the 3600 to only see it drop to $280 moments later...GRRRR...least I saved $50 odd on the GPU purchase I suppose.
I went the other route. I was ready to jump on a 3600 a few times but just couldn't justify a $190 micro-ATX board for a mid-range build. Then I saw this Anand article of 2700X for $199, grab an reasonable ITX board and case. Since I only game on my Xbox one X, I went for mua-cores, mua-ha-ha.
For most normal ppl, the 3600 is a much better buy at its MSRP of 200.
Even though its only $150 for the 2700, the 3600 is much faster for anything not using 8 cores. When you factor in the motherboard purchase, worth it to pay the extra $50
Agreed, 3600 was my first choice, although one would be out of luck if looking for anything other than ATX form factor. There is currently only one micro-ATX board and it is out of stock at most places. There is no mini-ITX motherboard (which makes sense given the nature of x570 chipset). With time, that will change I am sure.
You dont have to use the x570 chipset, there's 4xx and 3xx series boards that support the latest Ryzen CPUs. Just make sure its got the latest BIOS update.
Don't get tricked into getting the x570 chipset, the cost is almost as much as the CPU!
Yeah, about that, I researched for quite a bit and concluded that I would most likely have to go with an x570 board because I don't have a AM4 CPU to update the BIOS. It will probably take a while before all motherboards come preinstalled with the latest BIOS. And I am unwilling to go through the giant hassle of borrowing a CPU from AMD.
I was really looking forward to getting a 3600 but I agree with you that X570 is just an overkill. But It all worked out in the end. Now I got my mini-ITX build with a 2700X. Between the CPU and motherboard, I saved about $200 and invested in a 1TB NVMe plus a 500GB SSD for my VM drive and system drive, with some change. It's still a 4X improvement over my phenom II 1090T. I am a happy camper :)
MSI boards mostly allow you to update the BIOS without a CPU. There are a few ASUS boards like that, but that's it. So it really is a differentiator for MSI right now. That's probably the route I'm going soon. I don't want the extra power consumption, cost, and annoying little fan on the X570 boards. And I don't want to wait for B550 which would probably be perfect but sounds like that will be on sale at the end of the year.
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36 Comments
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willis936 - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
I remember the 1700 being $150 last November.Franklin7777 - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
Newegg is also selling the 2700 for $149. The new Ryzen 3xxx processors look great, but these are some flaming deals on the old stock.olde94 - Tuesday, July 16, 2019 - link
yeah for anything non gaming this is a bargain! though i went for the 3900x due to the extra cores29a - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
Newegg has the 2700 for $149.Kastriot - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
Good times for new cpu owners!DanNeely - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
Amazon apparently realized having the 2700x and 2700 at the same price wasn't a good idea, the latter was droped to $187 as of when I checked.FreckledTrout - Thursday, July 18, 2019 - link
Amazon they are pretty on top of things. I suspect they had more stock of the 2700x so until that even out they left the pricing like it was.azfacea - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
intel pondering their future LULGondalf - Tuesday, July 16, 2019 - link
Bet AMD is doing the same, at these prices they barely are in black and the revenue is not proportional to their market share..Bet a day or another AMD will be constrained to rise the prices to have enough cash to compete
with Intel in software arena. A cpu is not enough.in these days.
Opencg - Tuesday, July 16, 2019 - link
Intel set the bar low for consumers before ryzen was around. Both companies are easily able to handle current profit margins even with relative price drops. As well you must factor in that AMD develops quite a bit less total silicon blueprints than intel does. As far as current products are concerned they are selling quite well and total R&D cost is MUCH lower than intel and this trend will probably continue in the future. Yes amd has to sell far less to be profitable compared to intel.Intel COULD throw their money around and sell products lower while bleeding cash to push amd around. But in the end they would rather use that capital to increase production capability for the future. Pushing amd out of the game doesnt benefit them. Both intel and amd keep x86 / x64 relevant in a market where other architectures could take over given opportunity and time.
Gondalf - Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - link
About R&D costs, this is the real issue at AMD. Until now they have sold server SKUs without a serious software assistance, and this the main reason the market share remain low after a very good first edition of Epyc. Too bad for AMD, as the market share will grow the will are constrained to hire a big army division of engineers dedicated to customer needs, these needs are huge in these days if you consider that Intel has 15.000 engineers dedicated to custom software for server customers.So the situation is very fluid and sometimes a company has a too good product for its own capabilities. AMD has to double or triple its staff in order to compete with Intel.
Opencg - Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - link
The reason the market share remains low is it is the SERVER MARKET. You upgrade when you NEED to upgrade not when a new chip comes out. One of intels lowest stock prices came after itanium came out and papers were complaining that not enough servers were upgrading. But it was still a big win for intel to get into 64bit early.Gondalf - Thursday, July 18, 2019 - link
You have not understood my post and apparently you don't know how modern Companies act.Modern companies avoid to hire a staff of ten software engineers to dedicate to software optimization; a lot simpler is to ask to Intel or IBM or Fujitsu, this is cheaper than a staff of IT guys.
AMD can not give thiss service with its tiny 8500 people staff, half of them dedicated to GPUs for gamers.
Yes the server market atc like an elephant and companies are reclutant to change supplier, but the new customers are an intersting fish, still these new customers want a "buy and run" solution, only big tiers can give this, AMD is clearly not one of these.
So AMD will sell an intersting number of SKUs to some HPC customers and even to some big farm but hardly will reach a decent market share without changing company profile.
Right now AMD is unable to actively sustain its own server products. It will be a paintful adventure try to catch Intel in Server arena, it will take years and years (many).
Obviously AMD execs say the contrary but they well know to be liars.
azfacea - Tuesday, July 16, 2019 - link
nope a CPU is more than to make plenty money. especially if u are not throwing tens of billions at buying mcafee, paying cell phone makers to use crappy modems and believing marketing can make atom displace arm in tablets.also 12nm wafers are probly more than 30% cheaper now than they were when 2700x launched.
Gondalf - Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - link
Forget your 30% right now, there isn't any sign that a 14nm wafer is cheaper than years ago. This could be true at TSMC, but definitively nope at GF that is medium volume and not a yields champion.It is a fact that ony with 3000 series potentially AMD will begin to make real profit, lets see if Intel will begin a bloody price war.
Right now Intel is offering the Coffe Lake lineup at an huge discount in Asia, this is a recent move comfirmed by many. Bet the grow AMD in market share gain will stop in present quarter.
After all the average user do not notice any difference between the two cpu lines. I can't see a new K8 around.
Irata - Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - link
I would wager that AMD has a considerably leaner cost structure than Intel just by virtue of being smaller and no longer owning any fabs.I agree that they need to make money in order to stay relevant (Intel managing to cut AMD off from revenue back in the original Athlon days almost killed them).
That said, if you look at their CPU price range, they are now populating considerably higher ranges than prior to Ryzen's launch. I don't think they had any > $200 CPU on offer back in 2016 and now the cheapest 7nm Ryzen (3600) starts at $200.
kpb321 - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
I've got a B350 and 1500X system right now. I'm hoping in a year or two I'll be able to pick up a 3700X at something close to this price point. I doubt I'll really need it but it would still make a pretty solid all around CPU upgrade with better single threaded performance and twice as many cores/threads.cl114c0777498d - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
Better to buy the 2700x or the 3600, since they're the same price at the moment?From benchmarking comparisons, the 3600 looks still better and has more room for overclocking. Is there any reason to go for the 2700x even at this price?
sorten - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
For gaming at least the 3600 would be the better pick. It's faster on single core benchmarks and uses much less power. For heavy multithreaded workloads the 2700x may still over the better overall performance, but less efficiently.sorten - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
*offerugh, this sad old commenting system. lol
olde94 - Tuesday, July 16, 2019 - link
i know, it's such a shame on such a tech forumPeachNCream - Tuesday, July 16, 2019 - link
I think Anand mentioned he was going to work on addressing that problem a few years ago. He hasn't said anything about it lately though.GreenReaper - Tuesday, July 16, 2019 - link
It feels really like AJAX Comments for Drupal - even to the extent of having had a similar bug related to posting a second comment in the wrong place, which I eventually fixed in my own setup (was just referring to the wrong variable somewhere). But that has an edit feature, so I'm not sure why this wouldn't (maybe an early version).PeachNCream - Tuesday, July 16, 2019 - link
If its that outdated, you'd think there would be well-known exploits that would permit easy edits and changes. That'd be a thing to look into, though I'm not advocating someone break the site nefariously, just that if there is a hole, it gets pointed out so that it forces AT to finally modernize the comment system.cl114c0777498d - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
Nice, thanks for your response, I'll stick with the 3600 in that case.Dragonstongue - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
I just bought mine yesterday actually, waiting on the MSI x570 gaming edge wifi to ship, out of stock/back order everywhere I see .. also added RRX 570 MK2 OC 8gb .. 32gb 3200 CL16 ram will also make it "snappier" than my in use Phenom II running 980+ speeds with 1866 class ( the new stuff will be more bandwidth and usable lower latency) paired with Sammy 970 pro 512gb and cooled Deepcool Gammaxx 400 in Fractal Design Define C.... I was VERY tempted to go 2700x route as it was within a few $ of the 3600, but, when price drop to $284 last night, I snagged the 3600 to only see it drop to $280 moments later...GRRRR...least I saved $50 odd on the GPU purchase I suppose.YOLO and cry later lol
Dragonstongue - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
Define R6 usb C .. not Def C (have that, but the 3600 will go into the R6 win 10 pro and the PHII will go to the define C win 7 x64 ultimategamoniac - Tuesday, July 16, 2019 - link
I went the other route. I was ready to jump on a 3600 a few times but just couldn't justify a $190 micro-ATX board for a mid-range build. Then I saw this Anand article of 2700X for $199, grab an reasonable ITX board and case. Since I only game on my Xbox one X, I went for mua-cores, mua-ha-ha.mikato - Monday, July 22, 2019 - link
Hey Phenom II :) I have a 965 myself still, and still game on it.3600 was $280? Wasn't that supposed to be retail $200? Did you buy the out-of-stock price from a third party seller?
webdoctors - Monday, July 15, 2019 - link
For most normal ppl, the 3600 is a much better buy at its MSRP of 200.Even though its only $150 for the 2700, the 3600 is much faster for anything not using 8 cores. When you factor in the motherboard purchase, worth it to pay the extra $50
gamoniac - Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - link
Agreed, 3600 was my first choice, although one would be out of luck if looking for anything other than ATX form factor. There is currently only one micro-ATX board and it is out of stock at most places. There is no mini-ITX motherboard (which makes sense given the nature of x570 chipset). With time, that will change I am sure.webdoctors - Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - link
You dont have to use the x570 chipset, there's 4xx and 3xx series boards that support the latest Ryzen CPUs. Just make sure its got the latest BIOS update.Don't get tricked into getting the x570 chipset, the cost is almost as much as the CPU!
gamoniac - Friday, July 19, 2019 - link
Yeah, about that, I researched for quite a bit and concluded that I would most likely have to go with an x570 board because I don't have a AM4 CPU to update the BIOS. It will probably take a while before all motherboards come preinstalled with the latest BIOS. And I am unwilling to go through the giant hassle of borrowing a CPU from AMD.I was really looking forward to getting a 3600 but I agree with you that X570 is just an overkill. But It all worked out in the end. Now I got my mini-ITX build with a 2700X. Between the CPU and motherboard, I saved about $200 and invested in a 1TB NVMe plus a 500GB SSD for my VM drive and system drive, with some change. It's still a 4X improvement over my phenom II 1090T. I am a happy camper :)
mikato - Monday, July 22, 2019 - link
MSI boards mostly allow you to update the BIOS without a CPU. There are a few ASUS boards like that, but that's it. So it really is a differentiator for MSI right now. That's probably the route I'm going soon. I don't want the extra power consumption, cost, and annoying little fan on the X570 boards. And I don't want to wait for B550 which would probably be perfect but sounds like that will be on sale at the end of the year.List of (B350, B450, X370, and X470) motherboards with USB BIOS Flashback
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/bvfo57/list_...
shtldr - Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - link
I have a MSI B450 Mortar running a Ryzen 7 3700X. I flashed a beta BIOS without having a compatible CPU.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTkXunUAriE
eldakka - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Nice price.