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  • edzieba - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    I think the weirdest thing about this console generation is the near total lack of enthusiasm, either organic or marketed.
    I haven't seen a single advert for either console, this is the first I've heard that one of them is available, and couldn't tell you when the PS5 will be launching either. Nobody I know is in the "yeah, new <Console>! I'm gonna get it so I can play <Game>!", and can't think off he top of my head of any of the launch titles for either (again, no adverts).
  • Stuka87 - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    I have seen tons of buzz online. But you are right that I have not seen a single commercial for them. And the video commercials I have seen, all mention the XBox One. Definitely very different than the last time new consoles launched.
  • nitram_tpr - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    I saw my first ad for the XBox Series X yesterday on UK TV, it looked impressive but it wasn't a really hyped up advert. Not like the ads for the new iphone (the most powerful iphone ever, well duh, it's new!)
  • dmoros78v| - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    phones have gotten ridiculous as of late, and we are guilty... we cry foul when a new console costs more than 500 bucks, but are happy to pay 1000 for a phone? iphone prices have become really distorted, the hardware on an iphone cant be twice as expensive a the hardware in a fully fledged gaming console for 4K HDR ray tracing etc
  • star-affinity - Tuesday, November 10, 2020 - link

    I think you are comparing apples to oranges here. Saying that a phone is expensive compared to a gaming console isn't fair since there are quite a lot of more complex technology in a (modern) phone which can do *a lot* more than play/stream games and play/stream media.

    A (flagship) phone has

    -Camera (multiple) built-in.
    -Face recognition.
    -Multi-touch display built-in.
    -Speakers built-in.
    -GPS built-in.
    -Gyro built-in.
    -NFC built-in.
    -Battery built-in.

    Plus many more things in a tiny packages which requires a lot of R&D.

    By your reasoning, how do you motivate a graphics card for $2700?
  • d0x360 - Wednesday, November 18, 2020 - link

    The bill of materials on a phone is 1/4 their price. What you're paying for is the short sales shelf life and r&d. My note 10+ was NOT worth $1200+. I liked my note 9 much better and it was $600 cheaper.

    How do you justify a $2700 gpu? You don't because the most expensive one is only $1500. If you're paying ebay prices for one then you're a fool. Wait until after December and save yourself money.
  • dotjaz - Tuesday, November 10, 2020 - link

    Mobility carries a premium, that's the name of the game. Plus phone companies can't profit after they sold you the phone while consoles can be sold at a loss and still viable.

    How dumb are you to compare those? A fair comparison is a ohone on contract! And they are still cheap.
  • dotjaz - Tuesday, November 10, 2020 - link

    *phone
  • d0x360 - Wednesday, November 18, 2020 - link

    Yea they can profit, who are you kidding. They have apps and services that they use to sell information. They make way more than the cost of the phone back off ever owner..unless they use adguard. Adguard.com version, not the fake one in the play store or ios store.
  • wrongfuljesus - Wednesday, February 10, 2021 - link

    Well buckaroo, tell me, is your battery life dying? Is your phone on it's last legs in 6 months of usage? Well, the phone company is here tell *YOU* that you can come to their repair shop for a good and "safe" repair! For the low price of your self dignity and your yearly salary, you can pay to get your battery replaced. Boom, company profit buddy. Serializing parts, can't repair on your own. Tell me now, tell me, how is the phone company NOT profiting after they sold you this device?
  • Kangal - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    I haven't seen any TV, Radio, or Billboard ads. Even the buzz online has been quite mute.
    Despite that, 2020 is a bad time for console release. Not only is the pandemic risk a real problem, but the component supply issues are tough, the people having a lot less spending money is massive, and on top of that software and game developers have also been hit.

    Now every disadvantage has it's advantage!
    1) I think this was the perfect opportunity for MS to one-up and beat the console race, by pulling a "pro move". And what I mean about that is that MS should have trolled Sony, by developing a next-gen console that is launching in December, priced much higher, have worse specs, be much hotter, be much louder, look uglier, have a confusing name, and have gimmicky launch titles. So it's basically a 4K-checkerboard console with NO RayTracing. Yep, even going as far as sending lots of units to game publishers to work on, some individual units to online reviewers, and even limited supply to retailers. This would've meant Sony develops a PS5 that's even worse than now in terms of features (No RayTracing) and specs (20%-60% slower), and at a higher $600 price, to help the company profit-margin.

    2) Then at the last minute, bam, MS apologises and cancels the product just before launch. Then cite the covid restrictions, supply issues, etc etc as the culprit. But promise to release the system very soon when they are ready. A slimy business move indeed. It will have the half-baked PS5 competing with itself, which doesn't matter, as PS4 had won the current-gen console race.

    3) Then "re-develop" the next-gen console to actually release a year later, in Oct 2021. By this period, they would have stopped Xbox One/S/X production and ended stock. And released the "Xbox Two" as a better named, beautiful console, that runs cold, runs silent, ships with the Elite2 controller, and has a couple awesome exclusive games. It would run all enhanced "XB1X" games, and it supports next-gen games with an output of 4K-HDR-RayTracing with 120fps, but all games are actually rendered in 1080p. So because of the questionable 4TF RDNA +2 GPU its only a slight upgrade (modest upgrade to Base Xbox One), and priced equal to the discounted Xbox OneX at $300. Even worse it lacks a Disc tray, so it is Digital Only which gives a monopoly to MS for game sales and streaming. However, thanks to the much faster 4.0GHz Zen3 CPU, 16GB GDDR6 memory, and the Soldered 512GB nVme SSD, it does support all next-gen titles. So this rounds out the Xbox One era, with no reviewers sent any units, with all retailers having full stock already, it is ready for sale right away, shocks the industry and defeats the 1 year old $600 PS5 on a strict value proposition.

    4) But wait, there's more!
    Upon release of the Xbox Two, one week later MS holds a press release/announcement. This is their true fifth-gen console aptly named "The Xbox V". It's even better named, more beautiful design, runs silent, runs cool, released cheaper and better than expected. The next day and following, there are ads for it everywhere on TV, Radio, Billboards, and everywhere online. Whilst pre-orders start the next week, for a sweet $500 price, with heaps of stock in MS's warehouses boxed and ready. They would also have a new 5th-gen controller dubbed "XP5" for Xbox Pad 5 with an updated design. It also uses upgraded parts like 4.0GHz Zen3 CPU, a more modern 12TF RDNA2+ GPU, ample 32GB GDDR6 memory, and a 1TB nVme SSD that is user replaceable. Not to mention a much more polished API, Software, and launch titles/exclusives (not gimmicky). Overall there's a huge and noticeable (30%-90%) performance difference between the "half-baked PS5" versus the "enhanced Xbox V". This means PS5 suffers immensely with all third-party releases for the entire generation (not enough RAM, worse APIs, and slower CPU and GPU), and this new console package with such an instant reveal and launch puts Sony at a difficult position. Hence, having an early victory in 2020 for Sony proves useless in terms of profit and market share, and the console race really heats up.

    PS: ....with all this hypothetical yet possible scenario laid out, I should note Nintendo lost a similar opportunity with the Switch console. Which could have retailed more/less price, and launched same/earlier period, YET using the new technologies it could have been much more advanced and even more powerful than the PS4, thus supporting all third-party games from the current-gen consoles. It would've extended its effective lifetime, not be obsolete so quickly. Perhaps remain relevant in the next-gen console era as well, instead of relying on gimmicks, fans, and nostalgia.
  • persondb - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    That would require Microsoft to know ahead about the current situation. Because you know, hardware takes a long time to develop and it was likely finalized just before the start of this pandemic. Same for playstation really.
  • Tams80 - Sunday, November 8, 2020 - link

    This is what an uninhibited stream of fanboi fantasy looks like.

    Utterly clueless, impractical, unrealistic, and silly. Move along; nothing to see here.
  • TesseractOrion - Sunday, November 8, 2020 - link

    Total drivel.
  • Kangal - Sunday, November 8, 2020 - link

    I concur.
    Still fun thought exercise. Besides fact is stranger than fiction.
  • cmdrdredd - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    People without disposable income have made the PS4 Pro and Nintendo switch disappear from retail supply though. Seems people have more money than you think
  • FloridaMan - Friday, November 20, 2020 - link

    Sir,

    Corporate espionage is a real thing. Nearly all tech companies engage in an array of both soft and hard spying to know what the competition is bringing to the table.

    AMD would be point entropy in this situation. Not only is a third party designing for both Sony and MS, but their using the same architecture as well. One has less room to differentiate their product within those lines. However, this is beneficial to the consumer as developers are working between a framework rather than having to code for separate entities.
    Gone are the days where one might wait a year for game to port. (At least for consoles. The PCMASTERACE still locked behind this constraint on many titles, but we are patient, and mighty! What cannot be unlocked will be emulated, modded or synthesized!)
  • Yojimbo - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    I don't know if that's true or not, as I don't watch any TV. But maybe they feel it would be counterproductive in this environment. Hyping something up that will be in short supply for a while might make people frustrated. And by short supply I don't mean the supply will be low, I mean that demand will already outstrip supply without any advertising.

    The console market as a whole is probably pretty stable without any advertising, but Sony and Microsoft would want to gain an edge against each other in enthusiasm. So I would expect campaigns to try to influence people. Perhaps at first they will be a bit more subtle? (such as to get their product talked about on gamer youtuber channels, etc...) Then it's out there in people's minds without the direct, implicit promises of availability that come with direct advertising.
  • MonkeyPaw - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    Maybe they know they're facing supply shortages and there's no point in paying for advertising to sell a product that might already be sold out through the end of the year. I think enough gamers knew about PS5 and XSX that a tv commercial wouldn't move the needle.
  • HarryVoyager - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    That would be my suspicion. As I understand it, the PS5 and Xbox Series X/S have all, already, completely sold out in most markets, and it will be a while until they've got enough hardware on hand to make more.

    At that point a big ad blitz is just going to cost you money.
  • jabber - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    Tough call releasing a very non-essential bit of tech in the middle of a pandemic and economic downturn.
  • Yojimbo - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    Gaming is strong because people are going out less, and it's not really an economic downtown. More like a big interruption. It remains to be seen what the longer-term effects are. Gaming tends to hold up well in actual economic downturns, anyway, from what I remember hearing. Evidence to expect strong sales: Typically, console sales are weak before a new console launch, but the PS4 and X Box One continued to sell well this year. And just look at how the Nintendo Switch is doing, much better than last year.
  • cmdrdredd - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    Not such a tough call when the Nintendo Switch and PS4 Prop have been sold out in most retail channels continuously since April.
  • zepi - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    They are so badly supply side constrained, that there is really very little need to spend the marketing dollars right now.

    I'm sure MS and Sony will start pushing advertising once they have actually something to sell and they can really start competing for the marketshare.
  • steezebuscemi - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    I haven't seen anything on TV, but also never really pay attention to free to air. But everywhere I look on the internet for the past 6-9 months has been speculation, rumours and excitement over this console gen. So it might just be where you are looking. I'm getting a PS5, I know numerous people getting Series X's, and I know a heap that missed out on preorders for either.
  • Zagor Te Nay - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    Don't know, my environment (friends and colleagues) are quite excited... but more about PS5 that XSX.

    I feel MS took some - or a lot - of edge from the hype with their approach. Games available on older Xbox, new Xbox, PC, and then mushed up in easy to digest subscription. It just doesn't let new consoles stand out of the crowd much, it feels more like "one of many". Plus, there is no real look-what-it-can-do title on launch. Maybe new Forza or something would raise excitement a bit, but as it is, lineup is a bit lackluster.

    I work in IT company, so yeah - geeky environment. I hear chitchats about Miles Morales, DualSense, GT7 wishes, fears and expectations... but not much about new Xbox. I know it is anecdotal, still it holds some value for people in my circle; everyone from the circle, looking for new console, will be getting PS5 - as the things are now. I'm yet to hear one person who has set targets on XSX. It also doesn't help that many are PC gamers, too.
  • d0x360 - Wednesday, November 18, 2020 - link

    I'm pretty excited...well I was, I already have my series x so now I'm just happy. Especially since I won't be able to get my hands on an amd 5900 and a 6900xt until probably March due to supply.
  • Jorgp2 - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    >This encompasses four key components, the first of which is the NVMe SSD itself which can handle 2.4 GB/s of uncompressed data. But to connect it to the system, and reduce CPU overhead, there is also a hardware decompression block,

    Then there is no need for them to have used a proprietary memory card, most high end NVMe drives would have been fast enough.
  • Silversee - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    It's not proprietary memory. It's a proprietary slot-based package.

    I surmise that they wanted a design that was plug and play for consumers and did not require opening up the case or messing with M.2 slots. So, they created the card interface.

    They have indicated that other vendors may be offering compatible storage as well, so we may see market forces reducing costs.
  • eastcoast_pete - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    My "want it now" for this was significantly dampened when it became clear that Microsoft's own Flight Simulator is not available for the Series X at launch. That was/is weird, and gives me pause about availability of games that can really take advantage of the power this thing has on offer. Don't like saying it, but it looks like SONY is doing a better job there with its PS5, and I am not a PS fan.
  • marees - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    I would need 3 things to buy this console:

    1. Releasing Flight Simulator for console
    2. Allowing to install xcloud app on console
    3. A more universal release of All Access plans (for all countries)

    Basically I would like to play the Flight Simulator without having to install it (or a huge download)
  • cmdrdredd - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    Sony is doing a pretty terrible job with the PS5 so I don't know where you get that idea from. They botched the pre-order launch, hid a lot of details about backwards compatibility, don't support VRR at launch, and have a weaker system overall. It'll sell out because of the popularity of the brand alone but the Series X is the top console this time around.
  • FunBunny2 - Thursday, November 5, 2020 - link

    sure looks like a Mac Trashcan. I expect MS hopes this thing works out better.
  • vailr - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    How difficult will it be to install an alternative operating system on the X-Box Series X? It seems to be compatible with running either macOS or Windows, if the bios firmware can be altered sufficiently to allow booting into another O.S.. Interesting to see what happens.
  • tkSteveFOX - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    I really don't see the point of having an 8/16 CPU in the S. Why didn't they cut it to 6/12 to save some space/thermals?
    That GPU in there is totally a bottleneck for the CPU.
    I'm sure fans would have wanted a slightly better GPU in favour of the 8 core CPU with 16 threads.
    I just find it illogical as a choice.
  • Brett Howse - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    If they drop that too far, games that have the same visual elements (think a busy city street with a lot of NPCs) might not be possible on the Series S which would mean that the developer would just target the lowest common denominator. It makes a lot of sense why they have kept the CPU similar.
  • jabber - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    Also might be some 'currently locked' potential they can free up at a later date as a bonus.
  • eastcoast_pete - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    Also, I would be amazed if MS doesn't use the Series S to "reduce, reuse, recycle" the APUs that didn't make the cut for the Series X, but work okay at lower speed. There are several "bins" before the one labeled "garbage".
  • eastcoast_pete - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    Looking again at the specs, that "recycle" might also apply to the GDDR6 in the series S. That memory bandwidth really gimps the S; I think that was a mistake, with a slightly wider bus and even half the bandwidth of the Series X, it could have been a contender (yes, that old Rocky quote).
  • FunBunny2 - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    "yes, that old Rocky quote"

    young-un!!!

    "I coulda' had class. I coulda' been a contender. I coulda' been somebody. Instead of a bum, which is what I am."
    -- Terry Malloy/Marlon Brando 'On The Waterfront' 1954
  • eastcoast_pete - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    You're correct, and Brandon was outstanding in this movie (by Elia Kazan, I believe). Thought Stallone did borrow that line for Rocky, but it's been a while that I watched it. That being said, the "S" is at risk of being the bum among consoles, and the fact that it's readily available for pre-order suggests it's not rocking many boats out there.
  • flyingpants265 - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    One or two of the cores are doing things not related to games.
  • flyingpants265 - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    What exactly is the point of the Series S? The whole point of consoles is that they're standardized
  • andrewaggb - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    The trend started with the ps4 pro and xbox one x. They're still fairly standardized, same peripherals, same cpu, same gpu archicture, same software. Series S is just for 1080p only and will probably have somewhat lower quality textures because it has less ram.
  • Shlong - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    The Series S also doesn't have updated graphics for backward compatibility games. The graphical updates for Xbox One games will show up on Series X but not S.
  • cmdrdredd - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    That went out the window a while back. Now it's just a brand, the Xbox. All games using smart delivery work on any Xbox One or Series console and will use the appropriate settings and resolution for that console. Not unlike graphics settings in your PC. I could ask what the point of a RTX3070 is and the answer is the same. A lower power and cheaper alternative that is good enough for a lower resolution.
  • eastcoast_pete - Friday, November 6, 2020 - link

    Thanks for the first look/review, Brett! Question: Did you have a chance to see just how fast the USB 3.1 connection is when a. Used with an external SSD or b. a regular 7200 rpm HDD. Especially interested in getting an idea how fast or slow it is to transfer some of the games you tested back into the built-in SSD. If you haven't tested it but still have the unit, can you try it? Thanks!
  • Brett Howse - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    Thanks for the question. I don't actually have a USB SSD drive to test this. I do have a slower USB HDD but I think it would end up being the bottleneck and would give unreliable results. I think whether this is worth it for you is whether you have fast internet or not.

    I'll still try the USB HDD this weekend and just see how it goes and let you know.
  • eastcoast_pete - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    Thanks Brett, even a regular HDD will give an initial idea. Regarding an external SSD: Maybe someone else at AT has an external SSD they can lend you? With the current pricing for the proprietary add-on SSD, a half-priced external SSD connected by USB 3.1 is an interesting alternative. Assuming the Series X supports about 350 - 400 MB/second over USB, I'd probably get a 1TB external SSD and keep an external 8 TB HDD for "cold storage".
  • Brett Howse - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    Just so you are clear on this, any USB connected drive is not capable of being used for Series X|S games. It can be used for storage only. To play the new games they have to be on internal storage or on the Seagate storage drive. You'd have to shuffle games around if you want to keep them on USB.
  • eastcoast_pete - Sunday, November 8, 2020 - link

    Yes, that (shuffle with off-unit storage) is what I meant. At least early on, I'd like to keep enough free space on the built-in SSD to allow for fast saves and resumes.
  • Brett Howse - Sunday, November 8, 2020 - link

    It doesn't display the copy speed but I was able to copy a 75 GB game to the internal SSD in about 15 minutes, which works out to about 700 Mbps or 83 MB/s. This was with a 2.5" HDD.
  • eastcoast_pete - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    Thanks Brett! So, no speed demon, but not extra slow either, and this is about what I currently get with my external HDD over USB 3 to my PC. If the Series X does likewise with an SSD over USB 3.1 (same speed as external to PC), it'll be usable.
  • cmdrdredd - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    Digital Foundry did a test like this for backwards compatible games and in Fallout 4 the game loaded in 15seconds on the internal SSD and 17seconds from an external SSD(860evo) via USB3.1
  • 5j3rul3 - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    Is there any SONY Playstation 5 Review?
  • Brett Howse - Saturday, November 7, 2020 - link

    We didn't get sampled the PlayStation 5. Ryan has one ordered but it obviously he won't get it any earlier than when customers start to receive them.
  • 5j3rul3 - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    I hope I can read the PS5 review soon :)
  • CoderScribe - Saturday, November 28, 2020 - link

    Ditto
  • Assimilator87 - Sunday, November 8, 2020 - link

    Great article, Brett! Are you able to increase the resolution of the embedded pictures? The frame rate pics specifically are so soft it hurts my eyes haha.

    Also, is it possible to use a USB Blu-ray drive on the digital only consoles?
  • Brett Howse - Sunday, November 8, 2020 - link

    If you click on the images you will get them full size.

    No you can't use an external Blu-Ray with the Series S.
  • lefenzy - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link

    Both MS and Sony consoles are very impressive. How do they manage to put 8-core zen 2 plus high-end graphics and solid state storage into a $500 console? Are both manufacturers losing money on each unit?
  • Sub31 - Friday, November 13, 2020 - link

    Yes- consoles are loss leaders.
  • versesuvius - Tuesday, November 10, 2020 - link

    "solid-stage storage" ?
  • madseven7 - Wednesday, November 11, 2020 - link

    tell me a phone with 16GB of ram, AI, that can play at 2k on a 65" screen
  • Alexvrb - Wednesday, November 11, 2020 - link

    "a much smaller 4 TFLOP GPU, which is not even as powerful as the Xbox One X from 2017"

    Technically the final performance is roughly equal. 4 RDNA2 TFLOPS is comparable to 6 GCN2 TFLOPS. The problem is the reduced total memory means for CURRENT titles, they have to run an upscaled version of the Xbox One S game.

    For new titles specifically built with the Series S in mind (and possibly existing titles with a major update), they can use the SSD and DirectStorage to produce titles with graphics at least on par with what a One X can do. The Zen 2 cores are also a massive improvement over the ancient Jaguar cores.
  • vol.2 - Friday, November 13, 2020 - link

    There are obviously no more game consoles. But this "generation" is significant in that it is overtly marketed as incremental upgrades. I guess the switch is still pretending with it's in-between size and semi-portability, but there isn't anywhere Nintendo can go from there. Either they continue to upgrade the switch and make the form-factor their differentiator, or they do the same thing as Sony and MS and just overtly make and sell computers that are simply locked into their own game title ecosystem.
  • CoderScribe - Saturday, November 28, 2020 - link

    Great review, please now do PS5, since that's what most of us will actually be playing and has more interesting architectural quirks for analysis.

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