It looks amazing and more importantly, Microsoft are innovating. Product innovation, business model innovation... This stuff takes time to realise, it takes a change in culture. I'm really excited to see what else is in their product pipeline. Getting close to full integration and a single device now...
This is why the covers are usually an optional accessory. You're looking at this and saying it's expensive; but if it comes with the keyboard, which might be worth $200, it's the same price as the 256GB Surface Pro 4. (Basically, a better screen and thinner tablet instead of the extra 128 GB.)
No way a 960m runs at full speed in that device. It would be thermally throttled 100% of the time. 950m will also likely be throttled much of the time.
The issue is that people look at these super light, super slim laptops and think they will perform great based on the specs, but they fail to take into account that cooling is extremely sub-par in most of them, so you won't even get rated stock performance in sustained gaming loads. The tech sites make this worse by running their one or two run benchmarks that stop well before the device has a chance to heat up and start throttling.
actually that's the only chip on that huge piece of magnesium. It could easily cool 45w actively, since it's not sharing TDP with anything else.. The batteries aren't gonna get very warm.
60w GPU may be possible to cool in such a thin chassis.. but stretching the possibilities. The Asus Zenbook UX501 can do it so I suppose the Book can too.
"UPDATE: Just got official word from NVIDIA on the GPU, but unfortunately it doesn't tell us much.
The new GPU is a Maxwell based GPU with GDDR5 memory. It was designed to deliver the best performance in ultra-thin form factors such as the Surface Book keyboard dock. Given its unique implementation and design in the keyboard module, it cannot be compared to a traditional 900M series GPU. Contact Microsoft for performance information."
2 - Are you sure all models are 15W? During the presentation, they seemed to claim the Surface Book had "2 more cores" than the Macbook Air, meaning the top-end model with an i7 could be a 4-core part. Incidentally, Intel has just announced the i7 6822EQ, a 25W quad-core Skylake.
1GB is interesting since the last NV mobile GPU with that little was the 810M. GDDR5 support means an GM107 chip, but if they cut the vram size down IMO it's reasonable to assume they also cut the number of GPU cores below the 640 in the 950M. I suspect the worst case would be down from 5 to 3 SMM's yielding the same 384 cores as the GM208 based 940M. Regardless it's not a part they currently have listed.
It only has a 65W PSU, up from 36W on the IGP version. After subtracting off for the CPU/etc, that leaves at most ~45W for the GPU (down from >55W for a GDDR5 950M) if you're willing to accept the batery not recharging at all when you game; with the gap in brick size suggesting it's only a 30W part. While it's possible MS kept the core count the same and just slashed clockspeeds and voltages; the 384 cores of the 29/36W 930m or 940m seems more likely to me.
He said "including the two other processors". I'm not sure what that meant. It could possibly be a bullshit adding of the GPU, G5 touchscreen chip, and CPU together for some meaningless total Gflops number like they did with Hololens.
I liked it until seeing the pricing. They have almost useless 4gb/128gb as the base model and charges whooping $300 for 8gb/256gb upgrade. It is a total ripoff and much worse than what apple is doing.
I wouldn't say much worse, but yeah, it's worse. At least for me. If you're an artist the pen thing and the theoretically better screen might make it a compelling offering compared to the rMBP 13.
There are enough affordable convertibles with similar size, almost all of which has a pen input. And I don't think the detachable form factor means much as the battery life is only rated for 3 hours. I don't think it can suck charge from keyboard when docked either. (haven't seen any machine doing that)
its not just a convertible, its a full blow tablet that detaches.. You add the Keyboard for GPU. 2K is the high end price. $1500 will get you a i5 with Dedicated GPU, and yes i would pay that because i do graphics design and video editing. You'd rather pay $1200 for iPad Pro? or $1600 for Dell XPS 13 that does not have as much CPU and GPU power? and can't be a tablet?
Tablet section only lasts 3hrs, so you have to carry the keyboard anyway. And XPS 13 has the cpu on the keyboard side so it has more thermal headroom than this 7mm thick slate. And dedicated GPU is OPTIONAL and $1500 one comes with internal GPU with 128GB storage.
I have used SP3 and fully know its advantages and limitations. This one is no exception.
The tablet battery is more likely to be in line with the SP4 at around 9 hrs... This is hands down the best laptop option on the market, within its price range.
It is expensive, I won't argue there. But does Apple offer a device with this capability and functionality? Touchscreen, stylus, dGPU, etc... This is a hybrid device, you don't need to buy a pro tablet with this.
It is actually REALLY REALLY expensive. Microsoft store currently sells x360 with i7 5500U, 8GB ram and 256GB SSD at only $1089. Pen is extra but costs like $30 (Dell one). Surface book, on the other hand, costs $1699 for 8G ram and 256GB SSD. That's $600 difference.This gets even larger as I can get 8GB/128SSD model and put $150 500GB m2 drive myself (which I did myself). For now the only 512GB surface book configuration costs $2699.
Of course it is not a fair comparison due to screen ratio/ resolution / SSD type etc but 1080p screen and SATA SSD is more than enough for me. (Yes, I have used retina MBP and other HiDPI devices for months)
It's also a fact that Microsoft are trying hard not to sabotage sales of other OEMs. They could price this at lower prices, but it'll be the same thing all over again when they announced the first Surface... Remember all those "threats"?
what can oem's do tho? not use windows? they have no leg to stand on. they are, and always have been, riding on the backs of intel and microsoft's success. They just need to make compelling products..
They need to innovate and not just pick good components and put them in a nice chassis. Microsoft has innovated with this device.
this device is not price to convince you to buy it. Surface products dont have to do that anymore. They are selling well.
It's capablities are what convince you to pay extra, because frankly nobody else has a solution like this, with the pen capabilities this has. And no your yoga's and hp's dont even come close to microsoft's digitizer and pen solution.
I have to agree with Morawka here. I've been looking through similar products with similar specs, and I have to say the Surface Book isn't way off. The Sony Vaio Canvas, for example, is less functional yet more expensive than the Surface Book (it has a higher TDP processor, but the Surface has a much faster GPU).
This product is clearly aimed at consumers who aren't too worried about the price. Consumers who want relatively "powerful" devices, but with a luxurious design and a nice brand slapped on the back (usually MacBook and former Sony Vaio customers back in the day).
Anyway, compared with products with similar market target, I believe the Surface Book is the device to beat now.
Microsoft keeps touting that it is twice as fast as a Macbook Pro, but without any specs to back this up.
If it does actually have a quad core i7, that could make it twice as fast as a 13" MBP, but at almost double the price. The base i5 version cost quite a bit more than a 13" MBP. Obviously it has the detachable screen and such, but MS claiming twice the speed is a bit disingenuous.
Hm, I had assumed it would use the ultrabook dual core i7s, and the double the performance meant on the GPU side. If they meant processors it could be quad though.
Agreed. I'd like to see some numbers backing that up. Skylake isn't twice as fast compared to the rMBP 13 Broadwell nor is it's GPU. Maybe they're claiming that the dedicated nVidia GPU card ($1899 offering) will be twice as fast as the base rMBP 13 Iris 6100 ($1799 offering)...
Hmm. i wonder if GPU upgrades could be in the future since they're in the keyboard part.
Also wonder how close the Skylake Iris with 64MB eDRAM comes to the old Iris Pro 5200 with 128MB. Intel did say 128MB was very overprovisioned and they really only needed 32, so it could be close.
If it is close, one may not even miss the ambiguous Nvidia GPU.
So there's a separate battery in the keyboard, as well as the one in the display? Curious how charging connections and priorities work. Separate plugs for each? Plug in the keyboard is the only one that works when the two are attached, and it charges the display first? If the keyboard is out of battery, can it draw from the display's, and vice-versa?
Your answer could be found in other device examples. What I'm truly curious about is the size of the batteries on each side. How long can it last in only tablet mode, and how much more battery does the base provide.
Looks great. This would be an alternative for a MacBook Pro for me, and the only time I want a tablet is for watching media so the wider than iPad aspect ratio is ideal. I just hope that UK pricing is sensible, and that I can see one before purchase. The 8GB/256GB MBP is £1,199 by comparison and I'm happy to use either OS.
Oh the margins they (and everyone else in the industry) make on upgrades. Jumping from the base 128GB i5 model to the next step up (additional 128GB of SSD) shouldn't cost $200. Not when you can buy high quality retail SSDs for under 35 cents / GB (Samsung 850 Evo 256GB is around $90). The whole point of buying the upgrade through the manufacturer is that they should be able to charge OEM pricing for the upgrade which would make it cheaper than buying a retail upgrade. And they wonder why we want user upgradable components... BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER. /rant
that's why I am keeping my current Sandy Bridge and Ivy Brige PCs with Sata 3 SSDs for many years to come. But PCIe is the future anyway, just too expensive now... (and before MS, Apple has already gone with PCIe)
I still think it is utterly stupid to equip a mobile device (which is thermally limited) with PCIe storage. The only scenario human can feel perceivable gain is when they are copying large amount of data from VERY fast external storage through thunderbolt, and I don't think such a case is common.
I agree at current prices and with current technology. But in a few years, when USB 3.1 10Gb/s will be standard in a lot of devices and when other PCIe solutions with faster random speed will be around, it will be a much desired feature and SATA 3 will become a bottleneck.
Are you crazy? Anandtech and the rest of the tech blog community will utterly SLAUGHTER the Surface Book if it didn't come with PCIe storage "just like the MacBook". We're already seeing all the hailing and complementing of the iPhone 6s's PCIe storage solution, when in fact it's not that different from UFS 2.0 in real life while UFS might as well be more optimal for such devices...
From a purely technical standpoint, this hinge is very impressive. From a utilitarian POV I don't really understand why it needs to be that complicated. Couldn't they have just had some type of motorized locking tabs with a rotating hinge on the keyboard side to accomplish a similar design goal without the added complexity and increase the slimness profile when the thing is closed?
It doesn't extend it much, nowhere near enough to pass the centre of gravity of the display. I see that excuse a lot and just can't accept it without further analysis.
Looks awesome and the best part is 13.5 inch 3.2 ratio screen which means that total screen size will be similar or more than the normal 16:9 14 inch laptops.
Maybe now someone will actually make a high end 3:2 display again... Naahh. It does make sense for the enthusiast/pro running multiple displays tho, which is what the desktop market is shrinking to (outside of gaming).
I still think that the ideal solution (maybe for next year) would be a device with smart side bezels that can disappear and make the device a larger 16:9 display (good for videos) and be there in tablet mode.
As a tablet: What's hot: weight (less than SP3/4 and virtually on par with ipad pro), real A4 screen size with pen input, amazing for viewing pdf, magazines etc. whats not: no USB, no kickstand, so less use cases as a large (and pretty light for the size) tablet Using it as a tablet with the keyboard attached is relatively heavy and maybe awkward, as it not flat like a lenovo yoga
Lenovo yoga has 14" variant with wacom AES pen, good expandability (SSD+HDD setup possible) and rugged casing. Should be more practical for almost all the usage case, unless you need to hold the tablet in one hand.
15W, so that means no Skylake 25W quad...So then the 2x Macbook Pro performance number is probably bullshit. I guess it could be there on the GPU side, but the CPU will be incremental.
Looks cool but just too expensive (just like the surface pro) to make me update my "old" X220. In fact the X220 is actually lighter than this. Does Win 10 finally play nice with font scaling? That resolution on a 13" screen for sure requires it.
It has - 6th gen Core U - pressure sensitive pen - 3000x2000 resolution - PCIe SSD 256-512 GB - RAM 8-16GB - 12hr battery (marketing speak) - 1.5kg weight - Full multi-tasking application/suite supporting OS (not just simple smart phone apps) - GPU acceleration - works as a tablet For $1900-2700USD
What else is there that has anywhere near these specs? I can only find Lenovo Yoga 3 Pro, ant it has: - 5th gen Core M - pen sold separately (?) - 3000x1800 resolution - PCIe SSD (M.2) 256-512 GB - RAM 8GB DDR3L - 9hr battery (marketing speak) - 1.2kg weight - Full multi-tasking application/suite supporting OS (not just simple smart phone apps) - Intel HD Graphics 5300 - clunky tablet-mode For $1300USD+a bit extra for the pen
So, it's $600USD (or more) additional for: mag-alloy case, nVidia GPU, new generation CPU and higher battery life.
Expensive, but not outrageous.
We can compare better after (if) Lenovo ships Lenovo Yoga 4 Pro with Skylake and hopefully additional BTO-options (1TB / 16GB /etc).
Yoga 3 pro is nowheve near, not only it is a Broadwell core m (slower than even the Skylake core m) but Lenovo has messed with the TDP and it was one of the worst performing Broadwell Core M devices. I would even say that the (undeserved IMO) bad reputation of Core M is largely due to this device (which was also the first to sport a Core M CPU). And this is definitely something you would not want to hold in one hand...
So a little over a quarter of the battery is in the tablet and three quarters is in the keyboard. The 3hr tablet only estimate is more complicated than just dividing up the battery, though. The power draw with the keyboard is unquestionably higher than the power draw without. The question is how much higher was it for their test scenario. If they got twelve hours with the dGPU all but disabled, then the power draw shouldn't be all that different (keyboard, back-lighting, touchpad, etc. don't use that much power). In this scenario, I'd expect your estimate to be pretty close. If the dGPU is actually active during the test scenario, then (depending on how much power it draws) the tablet mode battery life could be significantly higher.
The Surface Pro 3 has a 42 WHr battery and gets 7.6 hrs and 7.58 hrs in anandtech's light usage and video playback tests respectively. http://www.anandtech.com/show/8077/microsoft-surfa... Assuming equivalent energy efficiency, that would put this one at 3.25 hrs. It is probable that efficiency is higher here (particularly for video playback), but I wouldn't count on it getting more than 4 hrs. Sounds like your estimate is probably pretty close. This also suggests that they probably were estimating using a test scenario that didn't use much in the way of dGPU power. I'd expect not to get 12hrs when doing anything that taxes it. I wonder how it will handle GPU accelerated web content on browsers that make use of the hardware.
I did not see this coming but this in the right direction as there really is a market at this price range. Some people don't buy the Mac for the Mac OS but the external hardware.
"UPDATE: Just got official word from NVIDIA on the GPU, but unfortunately it doesn't tell us much.
The new GPU is a Maxwell based GPU with GDDR5 memory. It was designed to deliver the best performance in ultra-thin form factors such as the Surface Book keyboard dock. Given its unique implementation and design in the keyboard module, it cannot be compared to a traditional 900M series GPU. Contact Microsoft for performance information."
So, the only difference between the Surface 4 Pro and the Surface Book is a GPU in the dock? Yay... Why not put in a hard drive bay in there too. I think the Asus Zenbook UX501 laptop that weighs 4.5 pounds, 960m graphics, full power laptop CPU is way cooler. Battery, RAM, SSD easily replaceable by removing the bottom cover. Cooling system is impressive to handle a 60W GPU and 45w CPU for such a thin laptop! The Surface Book is 3.48 pounds according to Anand but smaller screen at 13.5" vs 15.6" touchscreen of the Asus and I'm sure not as beefy of a video card. Then the price, probably about $1000 more than the Asus.
Microsoft comes ridiculously late with this Surface Book. It should've been released 3 years ago instead of their first Surface, at a time when the whole PC industry was focusing on new 2in1 form-factors. Surface Book should have been the guiding-concept for that hybrid devices trend, back in 2012/13.
But no ! MS was so frightened by the rise of tablets, and ended up just wanting their own piece of that pie, with products that had (have) no chance to rival with iOS and Android based tablets.
It took three years for Microsoft to realize that the "ultimate laptop" would be a "detachable", with a U-line Intel CPU and a custom dGPU. Add to that some premium materials, a high resolution screen, and a... stylus !
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113 Comments
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Elijah D - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Looks amazing. But at those price points it needs to be.BitJunkie - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
It looks amazing and more importantly, Microsoft are innovating. Product innovation, business model innovation... This stuff takes time to realise, it takes a change in culture. I'm really excited to see what else is in their product pipeline. Getting close to full integration and a single device now...mkozakewich - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
This is why the covers are usually an optional accessory. You're looking at this and saying it's expensive; but if it comes with the keyboard, which might be worth $200, it's the same price as the 256GB Surface Pro 4. (Basically, a better screen and thinner tablet instead of the extra 128 GB.)nerd1 - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
New HP envy X2 comes with proper backlit keyboard and it costs $799. All those keyboard accessories are grossly overpriced.Samus - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
My jaw dropped when I read there is a discrete GPU in the Surface. And it is priced jawdroppingly.IceClaec - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Any word on the exact model of NVidia GPU?nathanddrews - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
I'm guessing 950M.Gigaplex - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
I've seen unconfirmed reports it's a 960M.skavi - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
It's also apparently been optimized by the Xbox team.jimjamjamie - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
What could they do, ensure all games will run at 1080p 30fps?tipoo - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
So far the main "optimization" seems to be that they cut it from 2GB to 1GB to save power. Curious what else they did.piiman - Saturday, October 10, 2015 - link
"Optimized" sounds more like they gimped it.Nagorak - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
No way a 960m runs at full speed in that device. It would be thermally throttled 100% of the time. 950m will also likely be throttled much of the time.The issue is that people look at these super light, super slim laptops and think they will perform great based on the specs, but they fail to take into account that cooling is extremely sub-par in most of them, so you won't even get rated stock performance in sustained gaming loads. The tech sites make this worse by running their one or two run benchmarks that stop well before the device has a chance to heat up and start throttling.
Morawka - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
actually that's the only chip on that huge piece of magnesium. It could easily cool 45w actively, since it's not sharing TDP with anything else.. The batteries aren't gonna get very warm.nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
The gpu has the whole keyboard part to cool itself and MAYBE it can run at full potential.That said, you have to pour $2K to get only a midrange mobile GPU...
danwat1234 - Thursday, October 8, 2015 - link
60w GPU may be possible to cool in such a thin chassis.. but stretching the possibilities. The Asus Zenbook UX501 can do it so I suppose the Book can too.BMNify - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
They have not specified GPU part number anywhere till now, in such a slim chassis i think 950M is the max they can do.Nagorak - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
A slim chassis like this would be a poor choice for gaming. You're better off just sticking to the iGPU model,theNiZer - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
"UPDATE: Just got official word from NVIDIA on the GPU, but unfortunately it doesn't tell us much.The new GPU is a Maxwell based GPU with GDDR5 memory. It was designed to deliver the best performance in ultra-thin form factors such as the Surface Book keyboard dock. Given its unique implementation and design in the keyboard module, it cannot be compared to a traditional 900M series GPU. Contact Microsoft for performance information."
from: http://www.pcper.com/news/Mobile/Microsoft-Surface...
sry for double posting.
ymcpa - Friday, October 9, 2015 - link
It's a custom chip. No word to which chip it can be compared.Fiernaq - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Can't wait for battery life tests. That will be one of the key indicators for success.danbob999 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Does the keyboard works (bluetooth) when detached from the display? I guess USB and SD card functions stop working?randomhkkid - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Doubt it, they never mentioned anything like that in the keynote. Think of the keyboard as a docking station.ToTTenTranz - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Two things:1 - What nVidia GPU is in there? This official document seems to suggest there's only 1GB of GDDR5 in there, which is really bad if it's true:
http://news.microsoft.com/download/presskits/surfa...
2 - Are you sure all models are 15W? During the presentation, they seemed to claim the Surface Book had "2 more cores" than the Macbook Air, meaning the top-end model with an i7 could be a 4-core part. Incidentally, Intel has just announced the i7 6822EQ, a 25W quad-core Skylake.
randomhkkid - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
1. More than likely midrange, I'd expect ~950m at best. Strange that many sites are reporting 'Nvidia 8G' as if to indicate 8GB Graphics memory.2. Agreed, he definitely mentioned 2 more processing cores than a macbook air.
IceClaec - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
The MS product page references a "GeForce 8G". No idea what that means.http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/devices/sur...
tipoo - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
I'm starting to think the "two extra processors" was some arbitrary merger of CPU, GPU, and G5 chipset, since quads are unlikely in this.nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
You simply cannot squeeze 35W cpu into 7.7mm thick shell.N Shaftoe - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Why not- Vaio Z Canvas sports a 45W one..nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
And it's 18mm thick and has three fans...tipoo - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
There's a 25W Skylake quad. Still a bit stuffy in that form factor, but with good cooling, maybe.DanNeely - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
1GB is interesting since the last NV mobile GPU with that little was the 810M. GDDR5 support means an GM107 chip, but if they cut the vram size down IMO it's reasonable to assume they also cut the number of GPU cores below the 640 in the 950M. I suspect the worst case would be down from 5 to 3 SMM's yielding the same 384 cores as the GM208 based 940M. Regardless it's not a part they currently have listed.id4andrei - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Think about the fact that the GPU is alone in the base. It doesn't need to share cooling space with the CPU which is behind the display.DanNeely - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
It only has a 65W PSU, up from 36W on the IGP version. After subtracting off for the CPU/etc, that leaves at most ~45W for the GPU (down from >55W for a GDDR5 950M) if you're willing to accept the batery not recharging at all when you game; with the gap in brick size suggesting it's only a 30W part. While it's possible MS kept the core count the same and just slashed clockspeeds and voltages; the 384 cores of the 29/36W 930m or 940m seems more likely to me.id4andrei - Thursday, October 8, 2015 - link
Maybe it has a Quadro GPU. I think the DDR5 barrier is lower there. It might explain also the performance advantage over a rMBP.tipoo - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
He said "including the two other processors". I'm not sure what that meant. It could possibly be a bullshit adding of the GPU, G5 touchscreen chip, and CPU together for some meaningless total Gflops number like they did with Hololens.nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
I liked it until seeing the pricing. They have almost useless 4gb/128gb as the base model and charges whooping $300 for 8gb/256gb upgrade. It is a total ripoff and much worse than what apple is doing.nandnandnand - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Wrong article.IanHagen - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
I wouldn't say much worse, but yeah, it's worse. At least for me. If you're an artist the pen thing and the theoretically better screen might make it a compelling offering compared to the rMBP 13.nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
There are enough affordable convertibles with similar size, almost all of which has a pen input. And I don't think the detachable form factor means much as the battery life is only rated for 3 hours. I don't think it can suck charge from keyboard when docked either. (haven't seen any machine doing that)Morawka - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
None of them have a Discrete GPU tho like this one does..nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Thinkpad yoga 14 and yoga 460 had dGPU all along.And are you seriously willing to pay $2K for ULV convertible with (probably tuned down) 950m?
Morawka - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
its not just a convertible, its a full blow tablet that detaches.. You add the Keyboard for GPU. 2K is the high end price. $1500 will get you a i5 with Dedicated GPU, and yes i would pay that because i do graphics design and video editing. You'd rather pay $1200 for iPad Pro? or $1600 for Dell XPS 13 that does not have as much CPU and GPU power? and can't be a tablet?nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Tablet section only lasts 3hrs, so you have to carry the keyboard anyway. And XPS 13 has the cpu on the keyboard side so it has more thermal headroom than this 7mm thick slate. And dedicated GPU is OPTIONAL and $1500 one comes with internal GPU with 128GB storage.I have used SP3 and fully know its advantages and limitations. This one is no exception.
hazeblaze777 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
The tablet battery is more likely to be in line with the SP4 at around 9 hrs... This is hands down the best laptop option on the market, within its price range.ymcpa - Friday, October 9, 2015 - link
The $1500 model doesn't have the dgpu.lilmoe - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
It is expensive, I won't argue there. But does Apple offer a device with this capability and functionality? Touchscreen, stylus, dGPU, etc...This is a hybrid device, you don't need to buy a pro tablet with this.
nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
All other windows OEM does. And apple is referred here as a the (previous) worst example of milking user for storage.lilmoe - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
"All other Windows OEMs do"With this design, quality, sturdiness and performance? I beg to differ...
nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
I owned two surface pro's and now using HP spectre X360. HP one is built better (All the surface I have seen got bad paint chip after years of use)And it has the same touchscreen, pen, convertibility and weights LESS than surface book too.
lilmoe - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
That's debatable. But I did admit that it's expensive...nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
It is actually REALLY REALLY expensive. Microsoft store currently sells x360 with i7 5500U, 8GB ram and 256GB SSD at only $1089. Pen is extra but costs like $30 (Dell one). Surface book, on the other hand, costs $1699 for 8G ram and 256GB SSD. That's $600 difference.This gets even larger as I can get 8GB/128SSD model and put $150 500GB m2 drive myself (which I did myself). For now the only 512GB surface book configuration costs $2699.Of course it is not a fair comparison due to screen ratio/ resolution / SSD type etc but 1080p screen and SATA SSD is more than enough for me. (Yes, I have used retina MBP and other HiDPI devices for months)
lilmoe - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
It's also a fact that Microsoft are trying hard not to sabotage sales of other OEMs. They could price this at lower prices, but it'll be the same thing all over again when they announced the first Surface... Remember all those "threats"?Morawka - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
what can oem's do tho? not use windows? they have no leg to stand on. they are, and always have been, riding on the backs of intel and microsoft's success. They just need to make compelling products..They need to innovate and not just pick good components and put them in a nice chassis. Microsoft has innovated with this device.
Morawka - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
this device is not price to convince you to buy it. Surface products dont have to do that anymore. They are selling well.It's capablities are what convince you to pay extra, because frankly nobody else has a solution like this, with the pen capabilities this has. And no your yoga's and hp's dont even come close to microsoft's digitizer and pen solution.
nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Do you know anything about active pen tech? Old yoga had wacom EMR and new yoga has wacom AES. Both are known to be better than NTrig surface uses.lilmoe - Thursday, October 8, 2015 - link
I have to agree with Morawka here. I've been looking through similar products with similar specs, and I have to say the Surface Book isn't way off. The Sony Vaio Canvas, for example, is less functional yet more expensive than the Surface Book (it has a higher TDP processor, but the Surface has a much faster GPU).This product is clearly aimed at consumers who aren't too worried about the price. Consumers who want relatively "powerful" devices, but with a luxurious design and a nice brand slapped on the back (usually MacBook and former Sony Vaio customers back in the day).
Anyway, compared with products with similar market target, I believe the Surface Book is the device to beat now.
BMNify - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
@nerd1: The base model of Surface Book comes with 8GB ram not 4 as you mentioned, check out the specs here: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/devices/sur...IanHagen - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Gorgeous laptop, toe-grade ugly pricing.Stuka87 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Microsoft keeps touting that it is twice as fast as a Macbook Pro, but without any specs to back this up.If it does actually have a quad core i7, that could make it twice as fast as a 13" MBP, but at almost double the price. The base i5 version cost quite a bit more than a 13" MBP. Obviously it has the detachable screen and such, but MS claiming twice the speed is a bit disingenuous.
tipoo - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Hm, I had assumed it would use the ultrabook dual core i7s, and the double the performance meant on the GPU side. If they meant processors it could be quad though.IanHagen - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Agreed. I'd like to see some numbers backing that up. Skylake isn't twice as fast compared to the rMBP 13 Broadwell nor is it's GPU. Maybe they're claiming that the dedicated nVidia GPU card ($1899 offering) will be twice as fast as the base rMBP 13 Iris 6100 ($1799 offering)...TEAMSWITCHER - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
They were probably referring the the MacBook Pro Apple sold three years ago...nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
That's almost a lie. The CPU itself is 15Watts compared to 28 Watts one in rMBP 13", and discrete GPU is optional.Morawka - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
i'm guessing it's still faster even with the different tdp because of the new architecture and EDRAMnerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
CPU performance is limited much more by thermals than generations, and you won't get a good thermals with 7.7mm thin case.eddman - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
This is what he said, word for word:"By adding the discrete GPU, two extra processors, it fundamentally makes surface book two times faster than a MacBook pro."
It's still quite vague. Take from it what you will. I'm going to wait for more detailed specs, exact GPU and CPU models, clock speeds, etc.
tipoo - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Hmm. i wonder if GPU upgrades could be in the future since they're in the keyboard part.Also wonder how close the Skylake Iris with 64MB eDRAM comes to the old Iris Pro 5200 with 128MB. Intel did say 128MB was very overprovisioned and they really only needed 32, so it could be close.
If it is close, one may not even miss the ambiguous Nvidia GPU.
IanHagen - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Which model comes with eDRAM? Isn't HD 520 supposed to be the non-eDRAM version?Morawka - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
in the slides they showed EDRAM i5 with PCH onboard.tipoo - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
The i7s come with the Iris, with 64MB eDRAM. The i5s come with the 520 you mentioned.IanHagen - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
Oh, I see! Thank you.icrf - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
So there's a separate battery in the keyboard, as well as the one in the display? Curious how charging connections and priorities work. Separate plugs for each? Plug in the keyboard is the only one that works when the two are attached, and it charges the display first? If the keyboard is out of battery, can it draw from the display's, and vice-versa?lilmoe - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Your answer could be found in other device examples. What I'm truly curious about is the size of the batteries on each side. How long can it last in only tablet mode, and how much more battery does the base provide.nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
I guess 20Wh and 40Wh.mkozakewich - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
If it's anything like the Power Cover, it'll charge the main to 80%, then the spare to 80%, then the main to 100%, then the spare to 100%.flashpowered - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Looks great. This would be an alternative for a MacBook Pro for me, and the only time I want a tablet is for watching media so the wider than iPad aspect ratio is ideal. I just hope that UK pricing is sensible, and that I can see one before purchase. The 8GB/256GB MBP is £1,199 by comparison and I'm happy to use either OS.Fiernaq - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Oh the margins they (and everyone else in the industry) make on upgrades. Jumping from the base 128GB i5 model to the next step up (additional 128GB of SSD) shouldn't cost $200. Not when you can buy high quality retail SSDs for under 35 cents / GB (Samsung 850 Evo 256GB is around $90). The whole point of buying the upgrade through the manufacturer is that they should be able to charge OEM pricing for the upgrade which would make it cheaper than buying a retail upgrade. And they wonder why we want user upgradable components... BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER. /rantdigiguy - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
these are not SATA SSDs....nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
SATA SSDs are sufficient for most uses and PCie is mostly for benchmark bragging. And I have one...digiguy - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
that's why I am keeping my current Sandy Bridge and Ivy Brige PCs with Sata 3 SSDs for many years to come. But PCIe is the future anyway, just too expensive now... (and before MS, Apple has already gone with PCIe)nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
I still think it is utterly stupid to equip a mobile device (which is thermally limited) with PCIe storage. The only scenario human can feel perceivable gain is when they are copying large amount of data from VERY fast external storage through thunderbolt, and I don't think such a case is common.digiguy - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
I agree at current prices and with current technology. But in a few years, when USB 3.1 10Gb/s will be standard in a lot of devices and when other PCIe solutions with faster random speed will be around, it will be a much desired feature and SATA 3 will become a bottleneck.lilmoe - Thursday, October 8, 2015 - link
Are you crazy? Anandtech and the rest of the tech blog community will utterly SLAUGHTER the Surface Book if it didn't come with PCIe storage "just like the MacBook". We're already seeing all the hailing and complementing of the iPhone 6s's PCIe storage solution, when in fact it's not that different from UFS 2.0 in real life while UFS might as well be more optimal for such devices...Some companies get a pass, most don't.
mkozakewich - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Lots of things are sufficient. A SP3 is sufficient for everything the SP4 does. What you'd be paying for is all the stuff above and beyond.Th3rdparty - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
From a purely technical standpoint, this hinge is very impressive. From a utilitarian POV I don't really understand why it needs to be that complicated. Couldn't they have just had some type of motorized locking tabs with a rotating hinge on the keyboard side to accomplish a similar design goal without the added complexity and increase the slimness profile when the thing is closed?nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
It solves one main issue with detachable laptops - laptop falling backwards due to the weight of the top.This hinge design "extends" the keyboard section as it unrolls, giving it a bit more leverage to hole the laptop from falling backwards.
Gigaplex - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
It doesn't extend it much, nowhere near enough to pass the centre of gravity of the display. I see that excuse a lot and just can't accept it without further analysis.kanati8869 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Come on AT. You are saying that screen is 3000 x 2000 when it's OBVIOUSLY not a 3:2 ratio screen.digiguy - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
it isikjadoon - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
You've never held a piece of paper, have you?lilmoe - Thursday, October 8, 2015 - link
You're funny. Not sure if serious. Divide the 3000x2000 by 1000. What do you get?ikjadoon - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Where is the headset jack?BMNify - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Looks awesome and the best part is 13.5 inch 3.2 ratio screen which means that total screen size will be similar or more than the normal 16:9 14 inch laptops.Impulses - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Maybe now someone will actually make a high end 3:2 display again... Naahh. It does make sense for the enthusiast/pro running multiple displays tho, which is what the desktop market is shrinking to (outside of gaming).digiguy - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
I still think that the ideal solution (maybe for next year) would be a device with smart side bezels that can disappear and make the device a larger 16:9 display (good for videos) and be there in tablet mode.digiguy - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
As a tablet:What's hot: weight (less than SP3/4 and virtually on par with ipad pro), real A4 screen size with pen input, amazing for viewing pdf, magazines etc.
whats not: no USB, no kickstand, so less use cases as a large (and pretty light for the size) tablet
Using it as a tablet with the keyboard attached is relatively heavy and maybe awkward, as it not flat like a lenovo yoga
nerd1 - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
Lenovo yoga has 14" variant with wacom AES pen, good expandability (SSD+HDD setup possible) and rugged casing. Should be more practical for almost all the usage case, unless you need to hold the tablet in one hand.tipoo - Tuesday, October 6, 2015 - link
15W, so that means no Skylake 25W quad...So then the 2x Macbook Pro performance number is probably bullshit. I guess it could be there on the GPU side, but the CPU will be incremental.lilmoe - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
Where exactly does it say 15W other than here on Anandtech? I've been searching for an official spec sheet all over the web. Does anyone have a link?beginner99 - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
Looks cool but just too expensive (just like the surface pro) to make me update my "old" X220. In fact the X220 is actually lighter than this. Does Win 10 finally play nice with font scaling? That resolution on a 13" screen for sure requires it.halcyon - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
Expensive, meh-xpensive...It has
- 6th gen Core U
- pressure sensitive pen
- 3000x2000 resolution
- PCIe SSD 256-512 GB
- RAM 8-16GB
- 12hr battery (marketing speak)
- 1.5kg weight
- Full multi-tasking application/suite supporting OS (not just simple smart phone apps)
- GPU acceleration
- works as a tablet
For $1900-2700USD
What else is there that has anywhere near these specs? I can only find Lenovo Yoga 3 Pro, ant it has:
- 5th gen Core M
- pen sold separately (?)
- 3000x1800 resolution
- PCIe SSD (M.2) 256-512 GB
- RAM 8GB DDR3L
- 9hr battery (marketing speak)
- 1.2kg weight
- Full multi-tasking application/suite supporting OS (not just simple smart phone apps)
- Intel HD Graphics 5300
- clunky tablet-mode
For $1300USD+a bit extra for the pen
So, it's $600USD (or more) additional for: mag-alloy case, nVidia GPU, new generation CPU and higher battery life.
Expensive, but not outrageous.
We can compare better after (if) Lenovo ships Lenovo Yoga 4 Pro with Skylake and hopefully additional BTO-options (1TB / 16GB /etc).
digiguy - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
Yoga 3 pro is nowheve near, not only it is a Broadwell core m (slower than even the Skylake core m) but Lenovo has messed with the TDP and it was one of the worst performing Broadwell Core M devices. I would even say that the (undeserved IMO) bad reputation of Core M is largely due to this device (which was also the first to sport a Core M CPU).And this is definitely something you would not want to hold in one hand...
Le Geek - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
This!theNiZer - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
I like this move very much: MS competing at the high end laptop (besides hybrids, aka surface pro). In revision two this will be awesome.nerd1 - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
Battery capacity confirmed as 18Wh / 51Wh, which gives 3hr for tablet alone and 12hr for combo.BurntMyBacon - Friday, October 9, 2015 - link
So a little over a quarter of the battery is in the tablet and three quarters is in the keyboard. The 3hr tablet only estimate is more complicated than just dividing up the battery, though. The power draw with the keyboard is unquestionably higher than the power draw without. The question is how much higher was it for their test scenario. If they got twelve hours with the dGPU all but disabled, then the power draw shouldn't be all that different (keyboard, back-lighting, touchpad, etc. don't use that much power). In this scenario, I'd expect your estimate to be pretty close. If the dGPU is actually active during the test scenario, then (depending on how much power it draws) the tablet mode battery life could be significantly higher.The Surface Pro 3 has a 42 WHr battery and gets 7.6 hrs and 7.58 hrs in anandtech's light usage and video playback tests respectively. http://www.anandtech.com/show/8077/microsoft-surfa... Assuming equivalent energy efficiency, that would put this one at 3.25 hrs. It is probable that efficiency is higher here (particularly for video playback), but I wouldn't count on it getting more than 4 hrs. Sounds like your estimate is probably pretty close. This also suggests that they probably were estimating using a test scenario that didn't use much in the way of dGPU power. I'd expect not to get 12hrs when doing anything that taxes it. I wonder how it will handle GPU accelerated web content on browsers that make use of the hardware.
zodiacfml - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
I did not see this coming but this in the right direction as there really is a market at this price range. Some people don't buy the Mac for the Mac OS but the external hardware.theNiZer - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
New info on the Nvidia GPU in the Surface Book:"UPDATE: Just got official word from NVIDIA on the GPU, but unfortunately it doesn't tell us much.
The new GPU is a Maxwell based GPU with GDDR5 memory. It was designed to deliver the best performance in ultra-thin form factors such as the Surface Book keyboard dock. Given its unique implementation and design in the keyboard module, it cannot be compared to a traditional 900M series GPU. Contact Microsoft for performance information."
from: http://www.pcper.com/news/Mobile/Microsoft-Surface...
nerd1 - Wednesday, October 7, 2015 - link
I bet its detuned 950m or 960m.danwat1234 - Thursday, October 8, 2015 - link
So, the only difference between the Surface 4 Pro and the Surface Book is a GPU in the dock? Yay... Why not put in a hard drive bay in there too. I think the Asus Zenbook UX501 laptop that weighs 4.5 pounds, 960m graphics, full power laptop CPU is way cooler. Battery, RAM, SSD easily replaceable by removing the bottom cover. Cooling system is impressive to handle a 60W GPU and 45w CPU for such a thin laptop!The Surface Book is 3.48 pounds according to Anand but smaller screen at 13.5" vs 15.6" touchscreen of the Asus and I'm sure not as beefy of a video card.
Then the price, probably about $1000 more than the Asus.
nerd1 - Thursday, October 8, 2015 - link
Even better thing is the new XPS 15, with quadcore CPU and 960m, costs $1199.tn_techie - Thursday, October 8, 2015 - link
Microsoft comes ridiculously late with this Surface Book.It should've been released 3 years ago instead of their first Surface, at a time when the whole PC industry was focusing on new 2in1 form-factors.
Surface Book should have been the guiding-concept for that hybrid devices trend, back in 2012/13.
But no ! MS was so frightened by the rise of tablets, and ended up just wanting their own piece of that pie, with products that had (have) no chance to rival with iOS and Android based tablets.
It took three years for Microsoft to realize that the "ultimate laptop" would be a "detachable", with a U-line Intel CPU and a custom dGPU.
Add to that some premium materials, a high resolution screen, and a... stylus !
What a pity.