re: talent, I'm not sure. Max Schaefer (who helped create Diablo) is over at Runic now, making Torchlight.
The lead on D3 is Jay Wilson, formerly of Relic (Warhammer 40k, CoH) and the lead world designer is Leonard Boyarsky, who was the art director on the original Fallout.
D3 is not looking good. -Constant Internet connection required. -No mod community due to no offline mode. -Bad art direction and overuse of special effects. -Arcade-style health orbs. -No attribute customization. -No skill points. -Paying real money for game advancement = cheating.
what? no attribute customization? no skill points? is this diablo or gouls and goblins?
Im not a big fan of using real money for advancement either but I know its a necessary evil; they should however implement some way to notate that X player has used money to get items so you know who you're dealing with.
Yea you pretty much covered everything I'm hating about this game.
My biggest issue is the $ auction house. I can understand how some people might like a feature such as this and blizzard did a wonderful job spinning this to make it seem as though its just a necessary evil to help fight gold farmers. There may even be some truth to it, though I remain skeptical.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I feel games are supposed to be about having fun and it feels like this is taking away from that and making it more about what blizzard is and always has been focused on, making money.
I won't be supporting this game unless they make the $ auction houses on separate servers and provide servers that don't support them. Kind of like how wow has PvE/PvP servers.
Blizzard's reasoning on some of these decisions is laughably stupid. For instance:
1. An offline mode is a problem, because if you played it, and later decided you wanted to play online, you'd have to start a new character from scratch! http://tinyurl.com/3c7ecra
2. Jay claims that in D2, every build should obviously have 120 or 220 str, 75 dex, no energy, and the rest in vit. This is supreme and there's no advantage in anything different, so having the ability to customize is pointless. He concludes D3 would also have 1 mathematical answer, so they'll auto-assign attributes. http://tinyurl.com/3dwgbhn
3. Skill point customization can't work, so just have skills automatically get more powerful as you level. And then items control their power (5 types of runes and 7 power levels). So this brings us back to Auction House: just pay $$ (cheat) for the best runes and be a god. http://tinyurl.com/3forpab
In other news, Torchlight 2 is being developed by Blizzard North, it'll cost $20, have an offline mode, have mods, have point customization, and no Auction House.
1. happy they did it. Been in the same boat multiple times. Also been in the boat where such protections were not in place, I would join multi-player with my single-player character, and realize that because everyone is cheating, i have aboslutely no place online - unless I ALSO want to cheat. I hate it as it destroys the game as it was intended to be played. Sounds like you maybe want to cheat?
2. And instead give you *meaningful* customization options. Sounds like you want the illusion of choice over actual options?
3. See point 2.
I played Torchlight - the most unispired, boring, repetitive RPG I've ever had the displeasure of having to uninstall from my system. Well, I suppose that applies to everything Bethesda has made as well once you finished the 5 hours of story and realized you have another 105 of 'exploring' the same exact thing - over and over and over...
Conclusion - Feel free to play TL3 and not buy D3 - you won't be missed. Cheers!
Posting from work, so need this disclaimer: "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
Eh, to each his own. I'm looking at this as a PvE perspective. PvP the optimizations would make a slightly bigger difference, the changes level the playing field somewhat... but people that take the time can still combo a better skill/rune combo that is probably much better anyway (so not losing any edge there).
1.) online- They always try to gloss over the real reason for always-on connection requirements trying to make them sound beneficial. I would greatly prefer offline/LAN gameplay, but I don't blame Blizz for adding this in to combat cracker/hacker/pirates. More of an incentive for them to make a good game if they can keep 100%, maybe they'll still end up releasing crap rehashes (like EA - though they've gotten better).
2.)stats- Stat points really don't matter at all, it's more skills build, I've never been too big a fan of stats, you do usually just pour them in 1 or 2 stats depending on your class, but with D3 you might want vastly different stats with a battlemage vs mage.
3.)skills- At first reading I was worried about this point, then I watched the vid... Skill points are kinda a joke also, the real customization is in the actual skills. The actual skills compliment each other, the difference a few skill points in 1 or another skill matters little. It may mean a "main" skill turns out alittle weaker without the ability to pile on all your points, but it'll be more balanced which I prefer.
4.)Auction house- People buy crap online anyway, I'd much rather Blizz to be getting some cash then 3rd party farmers (well farmers will still be around and getting money, but it'll be much more legit, and Blizz will get a benifit).
5.) Mods- I do love mods for other games, but never did any in D2 (played it tons, got tired, found other games, haven't bothered with mods), hoping they get unlocked a year or so down the road, though not really too attached to them. If Blizz makes a great game, no need for mods.
"D3 is not looking good. -Constant Internet connection required." My refrigerator has an always-on internet connection. Welcome to the 2nd decade of the 21st century.
-No mod community due to no offline mode. OK, I'll give you this one. What mod were you looking for in a point-and-click arcade-style RPG?
-Bad art direction and overuse of special effects. Personal choice, so will give you this one as well... BUT. Have YOU personally seen or played it? Betta graphics/art does not a good game make. Plot and gameplay do that. Try focusing on those. Oh wait, you can't focus on the plot. And gameplay is identical to D1 and D2. So maybe I shouldn't give you this one afterall.
-Arcade-style health orbs. Hmm.. I'm pretty sure Diablo 2 had those as well. Potion clickfest - hmm THAT was the fun part that I remember loving and coming back to Diablo 2 for. /sarcasm
-No attribute customization. Illusion of choice > meaningful choice. I understand. /sarcasm
-No skill points. Illusion of choice > meaningful choice. I understand. /sarcasm
-Paying real money for game advancement = cheating. " go to www.ebay.com. Look for Diablo 2 & "unique item name". See how much they are going for. Then google 'Diablo 2 Items Buy'. My point is - you are barking up the wrong tree. Paying real money for game advancement has been a part of Diablo since Battle.Net came online. They just changed the venue. Sounds like you preferred the old venue because it wasn't right in front of your face? Here's an idea. Avert your eyes. Done.
All these complaints I keep reading over and over and over have ZERO to do with what made Diablo universe so great - the story, the game play, the thrill of seeing an orange item drop from a boss kill. Lets take a look at Diablo 3. Story? (probably) check. Game play? Check. Uniques? Double-plus-check. Either grow up or don't buy the game. VERY simple.
Posting from work, so need this disclaimer: "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
-You apparently can't see the value of an offline mode, and associate it with cheating. Look around; nobody is saying they want an offline mode so they can cheat. Reliable internet access isn't in all parts of the world. It may be on your fridge, but is it in all countries? Or remote places in the US? Or if you go on a business trip, do you necessarily have internet access where you stay? And aside from access, do you get the same lag-free experience online as offline? (hint, the answers are no, no, no, no.) This has nothing to do with wanting to cheat.
-Ahnilated said "If you thinks a 200-300ms ping is ok to play a game then you are too old and slow." You respond "This isn't an FPS where 10ms difference..." Why are you talking about 10ms? He said 200-300ms. Your response doesn't even make sense. 200-300ms indeed makes a huge difference in any realtime game.
-You're wrong again: D2 did not have arcade-style health orbs. Potions that regenerate life are very different, and are used commonly in medieval worlds.
-I'm not looking for any particular mod. But mods are great, and I love playing what the creative community comes up with.
-Attribute and skill customization is not an illusion of choice. It's a real choice. You can invest in more strength to wear higher defense armor, or you can increase your hit points. Dex buys blocking, attack accuracy, defense, and the ability to equip some weapons. Boosting mana lets you cast expensive spells more repetitively. There are all sorts of trade offs. If you can't recognize that, it's due to your own lack of awareness. I've probably created 30 D2 characters in the last 10 years.
-Call it "changing the venue of cheating" if you want. The problem is, it's making cheating part of the game, while not even calling it cheating.
-This all doesn't have "ZERO to do with what made Diablo universe so great". The atmosphere of D1 made it great; D3's art direction kills that. LAN/offline made it great; laggy online-only kills that for some people. A thousand combinations of class building made it great; having no skill/attribute customization hurts that.
-Constant Internet connection will help combat cheating and piracy. Little to no downside since beta testers have already reported that the server lag that existed to in D2 is basically non-existant D3. The number of gamers without a net connection is so small that the benefits of this outweigh the costs.
-No mods is really a preference. I happen to prefer no mods as long as the standard UI is good. Mods open too many doors to cheaters, which can be a HUGE problem as we saw with D1 and D2. Then Blizz has to dedicate time and money to combat mod exploits and such. Also, D3 is a rather "simple" and "arcade style" game when compared to something like WOW. So custom UI mods are not as beneficial.
-Bad art? Not sure where you are getting that from...
-Overuse of special effects...on some skills I may agree with you, but id have to play the game to make a judgement on this one.
-Health orbs....oh yes this is terrible, You are so right, I would much rather be spamming pots with my number keys... /sarcasm.
-No attribute customization, this was pretty cookie cutter in D2. Sure it was exciting to get new points when you level up, but eventually it just became a chore to pump attributes every level.
-No skill points. Again, skill points end up being cookie cutter. Now you dont need to re-roll every time you want to try a new build. Now you can be inventive and try new builds that may work or be fun to play. In D2, you had to reroll a whole character to do this. Come to think of it...this alone gets me excited about the game.
-Paying real money for in-game advancement. This can't be avoided...period. The only true way to combat this is to make items BOE. This just isn't the Diablo model. RMAH will not be as bad as everyone is making it out to be because it will be available to everyone. As long as drop rates are done right, the demand on the AH will HEAVILY outweigh the supply keeping scarcity and therefore prices high.
Gaming people hear us. I represent your educated target audience. We don't like where things are going. We don't want to pay $60 for a game like these with no community support, wants us to pay for upgrades, be online to play, been thrown together and feel like the #1 deciding factor in the development of the game is it's revenue/risk ratio. We want a game that continues to offer value beyond the initial purchase. Sadly I feel the golden age for the user comunity has set for major titles. Half Life was the apex and we are now on the right hand side of the bell curve. Think about the value that game has given us. The studios only see "look how much profit we missed out on by letting the mod comunity give away stuff built on top of our game". I'm posting on my iPhone and kind of ran out of steam for my rant... And knowing it falls on deaf ears. What ever... This is why I buy so few games in the past couple years. I think the COD games really pushed it over the top. In years past the "new" COD games would be add on packs, xbox even got us used to paying $20 for a map pack! As I was typing this I was thinking about what I have purchased and enjoyed lately and almost all the titles have been indy or small house games. Torch Light, space pirates and zombies, cut the rope, dungeon 1/2 come to mind. I've also enjoyed many of the $1-5 games I've got on my iPhone. One thing about Diablo, why didn't they milk us for more expansion packs? They could have taken me to the BANK on these! I would have happily bought every pack they felt like putting out! They really missed a cash cow there.
The new Deus Ex and Skyrim (hopefully) are exceptions (to the idea that all blockbusters these days are generic rehashes), but I do emphasize with your point. Unfortunately as the Escapist explains it in a series of videos, it's less than "there are no new ideas out there" then "publishers simply can't, from a profitability aspect, take risks with new games that allows the type of games we saw in the 90s and early 00's". The economics of game development nowadays doesn't allow for that type of risk-tasking we saw, with developing teams ballooning into the hundreds and production budgets comparable to major Hollywood movies.
TL;DR: So yes, the next frontier is indie games. It remains to be seen whether big-budget studios will take the successful ideas from those (e.g. Minecraft) and build something around it.
I understand the hate on auction houses, but are people just completely in the dark on D2? Online sites selling items were EVERYWHERE. Everything people are complaining that auction houses will ruin, was and is completely available in D2.
While bringing it to the mainstream will certainly make such item procurement more mainstream.... it seems like a necessary evil to me. There are plenty of free2play games that have similar systems in place, and by legitimizing it and keeping a form of control and security in place, it seems like the right direction to me.
Heaven forbid a company make money on the product they produce. I don't understand this "universal constant" that gamers seem to apply to companies. i.e. "In the past we've only had to buy 1 product for X amount and that's the way it always has to be." As a consumer, I hate opening my wallet as much as the next guy, or more as my wife would say, but seriously... grow up.
There are certainly a plethora of instances where companies purposefully milk this evolving business model *cough* Capcom *cough* but that doesn't mean we need to cry foul over any instance where we are given the OPTION to spend more on a product. That's not even getting into instances where extra content would previously have been omitted, eternally left on the cutting room floor, or never even produced in the first place.
As for the online connectivity... I just don't have sympathy for people complaining about this here. For another game, in other circumstances, sure, OK. But if you're not playing Diablo as an online-multiplayer game... you're not playing Diablo.
I am going to comment only on your online connectivity, make this short(er).
I started out playing Diablo 1 with my friends, back in the late 90s. We'd all connect to Battle.net and play together. Back then, B.net worked mostly as a lobby of sorts, allowing the players to easily connect to each other. Considering all we had was dialup back in those days (at least here), it worked fine.
Then came Diablo 2... and for me and my friends, playing online through B.Net was no longer a possibility. Since, apparently, the traffic between the clients now had to go through their servers, it added crazy lag/latency to our games, making it unplayable. Thankfully, we had the option to directly connect, in-game, using our IP addresses, which allowed us to play together once again (mostly) fine.
That's not going to happen with Diablo 3, though. Everything being through B.Net now, and the way it's set up... not going to work. For customers in the US and most European countries, I suppose it wouldn't be an issue. But for the likes of me, living in South America, with no local servers (and even if we did have servers here, depending on their location, performance would be very poor due to bad Internet infrastructure) makes it a no go.
I suppose, this time, and and my friends won't be trying this one... besides, I think this style of game has long lost it's appeal to most of us anyways, heh.
If you thinks a 200-300ms ping is ok to play a game then you are too old and slow. People can run into a room and have rounds on the way to you in that amount of time before you even see them.
This isn't an FPS where 10ms difference can mean victory over defeat or vice versa. It's an RPG. A PVE-centric RPG. You are complaing in the wrong forum.
Posting from work, so need this disclaimer: "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
SO I don't have the right to play a game by myself? Unless I'm online I'm not doing it right? Screw that and quite frankly screw you. The industry has become so greedy it's only rivaled by Hollywood. Single player games are still a huge staple of the gaming scene, in fact I'd say more so than online.
I agree 100%, no one tells me that I have to be online to play a game and that I have to play by their rules. If I want to cheat or play by myself and offline I should be able too. I don't care how they try to rationalize it, I will NOT buy a game that requires you to be online to play. There have been numerous examples where the game servers go down for over a week and people are screwed not being able to play.
Don't worry. There will be hacked servers up running in no time and you can go right ahead and torrent the game as you painfully obviously wanted to. Just like WoW - plenty of pirate servers up for that - no reason to pay Blizzard anything for their massive investment. You just wont be able to play on Blizzards servers. So I dont follow what your problem is. Theres a place for everyone and everyone will be in their place.
Posting from work, so need this disclaimer: "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
"RE: Art by AnnonymousCoward on Saturday, September 03, 2011 D3 is not looking good. -Constant Internet connection required. -No mod community due to no offline mode. -Bad art direction and overuse of special effects. -Arcade-style health orbs. -No attribute customization. -No skill points. -Paying real money for game advancement = cheating."
^^^^THIS 100%
I too agree 100%!!!^1000 I WILL NOT BUY A GAME REQUIRING ONLINE CONNECTION.
Come on people THINK DEEPER than just ^^^^... This all "online" stuff is about STUDYING your BEHAVIOR! Yes Blizz and other groups use these games and their demonstrated economies as actual UNIVERSITY level economics models... I know a professor that teaches a class about WoW and it's a highly sought after course! Marketing groups, GOVERNMENT and many other private sales & advertising groups use data gathered via these "games" to use in market prediction models for what people will want to "experience" next or what they'll more than likely purchase next, bc of XYZ,ABC factors. The DATA you and I provide for them (which we PAID them to collect) is worth literally BILLIONS of dollars vs. very expensive private 3rd groups that focus on the economics and logistics of the "consumer," aka SHOPPING CATTLE. "CONSUMER..." Listen to that; are you a MINDLESS "CONSUMER???" Or a PERSON with a CHOICE aka "customer."
Most of the news/internet/corp "media" refers to ALL of us as "CONSUMERS," just listen to any news post regarding the economy and shopping. They NEVER SAY "CUSTOMERS." "Consumer rights" groups???? CATTLE HAVE NO RIGHTS... Just keep shopping and spending your hard earned dollars +tax+tax+tax+taxes RISING THIS IS REAL PEOPLE! :-//// Lol.
I will NOT be purchasing Diablo III based on the many above listed issues aka "features." I've been playing Diablo since the Days I got a copy from a friend on a 1x Sony golden CDR in 1996-7! After 2 weeks, I went and purchased the WHOLE treasure cheat pack thing with all the expansions; I STILL play Diablo II to this day, which I purchased as well, even after a "trail" copy from a friend.... But sadly the GAME IS OVER for the "Diablo" series... The typical greed and corruption virus has infected another amazing start up and now they are
TOO BIG TO LISTEN to... CUSTOMERS! Hahah ain't that some shite? Blizzard's sorry ARSE is TOO BIG TO LISTEN to the CUSTOMERS who MADE YOU - YOU DUMB NERDS! No more of my cash for you!
Srsly wtf kind of "business" literally starts from the ground up making HARDCORE and seriously scary releases to then end up JUST LIKE the other "online only," "pay to cheat/front skills" mentality? Folks that cheated on DI/II servers were LAUGHED OFF THE SERVERS. Hell I know bc I was in a fscking BOTTING group; we had GODLY items all the time... Know what we did with them? GAVE THEM AWAY TO NOOBS as we upgraded... So what, some of them sold SOJs on ebay for $5... big whooooop. But now... "Diablo III" looks so dang graphically LAME and WoWified, it's a DEAD HORSE..... Blizzard you guys may be rich, but you're stupid asses regarding any shred of "humanity," respect, honesty, nor TRUST. GOOD Job MBA dorks... everyone hates you, ONLY your EGO and envious sellouts grovel to your patheticness... You'll die just like the rest of us... WITH NOTHING lol haha
Seriously, if you think DIABLO is the main or worst venue of people collecting data about you then... well jesus don't ever actually read into all the ways they are collecting data about you because you probably will never want to leave the house again. Or pay bills. Or have a bank account. In fact, best to go out to live in the woods and always use only cash or barter for your economic interactions.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like it either. But I'm also a realist. This is the brave new world we live in. Adapt or get left behind.
Posting from work, so need this disclaimer: "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
You sure about that? You really do sound like you are somehow vested in this game.
The Auction House in D3 is absolutely no different than the Auction House in WoW or Diablo 2: eBay. All Blizzard is doing is bringing what happened anyway outside of the game, the selling of in-game items and character on eBay or MMOBay, into the game and incorporating it as a game experience. If you didn't realize people were selling items, gold, and characters on eBay since Diablo 2, you either didn't play WoW or Diablo 2, or you were too noob to realize you could go buy a Windforce, the strongest bow in D2, on eBay within weeks or Diablo 2 being released. I legitimately found a Windforce in D2, but at the same time I have no problem with people selling their stuff on eBay either. Also, keep in mind, you can't just buy Diablo 3 and then go buy a Godfather Colossus Blade with your Visa and use it in Act 1 normal mode. To even have the level requirement to wield the Godfather, you would have had to played through the entire game at least twice, and be on Hell mode to have the proper level reqs to equp it. So, you may call it 'cheating,' and maybe it is, but you can't 'cheat' unless you play through the game entirely in the first place. You all need to take a deep breath and enjoy what they are making for you. If you don't like it, I really don't give a fuck.. go play Torchlight.
"All Blizzard is doing is bringing what happened anyway outside of the game" Exactly: OUTSIDE of the game. That's the whole problem. The gold-based auction house is fine, because it complies within the game world. You trade with other warriors equipment you found for their gold, or vice versa. Once you introduce real dollars, it's suddenly cheating, because it has nothing to do with the game world.
"but you can't 'cheat' unless you play through the game entirely in the first place." That doesn't make sense. All sorts of items will be for sale, not just super high level items.
Lets face it that Diablo 1 2 or 3 is the best thing ever to be made in gaming. So whining about Auction House's or bright lites or playing online is just for the weak knee people.
Big deal if you have in house auction and give a little back to Blizzard for making such a great game. If you don't like that then use the gold auction house thats why its there.
People don't want mods they want to be able to bot the place up and now that they can't they are sniveling.
Get the game and play it and THEN you can start wetting your pants. In the meantime its time for the "girlie-men" to step aside and let the REAL heroes save the world.
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AnnonymousCoward - Saturday, September 3, 2011 - link
The D3 logo and cover picture are so disappointing. It looks like computer generated crap. Nothing like the artistic styles of D1 or D2.tunapez - Saturday, September 3, 2011 - link
Out of curiosity, is any of the talent that created Diablo, D2 or Expansion associated with Blizzard anymore?Meh... I'm not buying a game I have to call home to ask permission to play, either way.
Craig Getting - Saturday, September 3, 2011 - link
re: talent, I'm not sure. Max Schaefer (who helped create Diablo) is over at Runic now, making Torchlight.The lead on D3 is Jay Wilson, formerly of Relic (Warhammer 40k, CoH) and the lead world designer is Leonard Boyarsky, who was the art director on the original Fallout.
AnnonymousCoward - Saturday, September 3, 2011 - link
D3 is not looking good.-Constant Internet connection required.
-No mod community due to no offline mode.
-Bad art direction and overuse of special effects.
-Arcade-style health orbs.
-No attribute customization.
-No skill points.
-Paying real money for game advancement = cheating.
xsilver - Sunday, September 4, 2011 - link
what? no attribute customization?no skill points?
is this diablo or gouls and goblins?
Im not a big fan of using real money for advancement either but I know its a necessary evil; they should however implement some way to notate that X player has used money to get items so you know who you're dealing with.
Sunagwa - Sunday, September 4, 2011 - link
Yea you pretty much covered everything I'm hating about this game.My biggest issue is the $ auction house. I can understand how some people might like a feature such as this and blizzard did a wonderful job spinning this to make it seem as though its just a necessary evil to help fight gold farmers. There may even be some truth to it, though I remain skeptical.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I feel games are supposed to be about having fun and it feels like this is taking away from that and making it more about what blizzard is and always has been focused on, making money.
I won't be supporting this game unless they make the $ auction houses on separate servers and provide servers that don't support them. Kind of like how wow has PvE/PvP servers.
IMHO
AnnonymousCoward - Sunday, September 4, 2011 - link
Blizzard's reasoning on some of these decisions is laughably stupid. For instance:1. An offline mode is a problem, because if you played it, and later decided you wanted to play online, you'd have to start a new character from scratch! http://tinyurl.com/3c7ecra
2. Jay claims that in D2, every build should obviously have 120 or 220 str, 75 dex, no energy, and the rest in vit. This is supreme and there's no advantage in anything different, so having the ability to customize is pointless. He concludes D3 would also have 1 mathematical answer, so they'll auto-assign attributes. http://tinyurl.com/3dwgbhn
3. Skill point customization can't work, so just have skills automatically get more powerful as you level. And then items control their power (5 types of runes and 7 power levels). So this brings us back to Auction House: just pay $$ (cheat) for the best runes and be a god. http://tinyurl.com/3forpab
In other news, Torchlight 2 is being developed by Blizzard North, it'll cost $20, have an offline mode, have mods, have point customization, and no Auction House.
gnesterenko - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
1. happy they did it. Been in the same boat multiple times. Also been in the boat where such protections were not in place, I would join multi-player with my single-player character, and realize that because everyone is cheating, i have aboslutely no place online - unless I ALSO want to cheat. I hate it as it destroys the game as it was intended to be played. Sounds like you maybe want to cheat?2. And instead give you *meaningful* customization options. Sounds like you want the illusion of choice over actual options?
3. See point 2.
I played Torchlight - the most unispired, boring, repetitive RPG I've ever had the displeasure of having to uninstall from my system. Well, I suppose that applies to everything Bethesda has made as well once you finished the 5 hours of story and realized you have another 105 of 'exploring' the same exact thing - over and over and over...
Conclusion - Feel free to play TL3 and not buy D3 - you won't be missed. Cheers!
Posting from work, so need this disclaimer:
"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
GivMe1 - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
Eh, to each his own. I'm looking at this as a PvE perspective. PvP the optimizations would make a slightly bigger difference, the changes level the playing field somewhat... but people that take the time can still combo a better skill/rune combo that is probably much better anyway (so not losing any edge there).1.) online- They always try to gloss over the real reason for always-on connection requirements trying to make them sound beneficial. I would greatly prefer offline/LAN gameplay, but I don't blame Blizz for adding this in to combat cracker/hacker/pirates. More of an incentive for them to make a good game if they can keep 100%, maybe they'll still end up releasing crap rehashes (like EA - though they've gotten better).
2.)stats- Stat points really don't matter at all, it's more skills build, I've never been too big a fan of stats, you do usually just pour them in 1 or 2 stats depending on your class, but with D3 you might want vastly different stats with a battlemage vs mage.
3.)skills- At first reading I was worried about this point, then I watched the vid... Skill points are kinda a joke also, the real customization is in the actual skills. The actual skills compliment each other, the difference a few skill points in 1 or another skill matters little. It may mean a "main" skill turns out alittle weaker without the ability to pile on all your points, but it'll be more balanced which I prefer.
4.)Auction house- People buy crap online anyway, I'd much rather Blizz to be getting some cash then 3rd party farmers (well farmers will still be around and getting money, but it'll be much more legit, and Blizz will get a benifit).
5.) Mods- I do love mods for other games, but never did any in D2 (played it tons, got tired, found other games, haven't bothered with mods), hoping they get unlocked a year or so down the road, though not really too attached to them. If Blizz makes a great game, no need for mods.
FITCamaro - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
Are you sure that mod content is out even with the internet connection being required?gnesterenko - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
"D3 is not looking good.-Constant Internet connection required."
My refrigerator has an always-on internet connection. Welcome to the 2nd decade of the 21st century.
-No mod community due to no offline mode.
OK, I'll give you this one. What mod were you looking for in a point-and-click arcade-style RPG?
-Bad art direction and overuse of special effects.
Personal choice, so will give you this one as well... BUT. Have YOU personally seen or played it? Betta graphics/art does not a good game make. Plot and gameplay do that. Try focusing on those. Oh wait, you can't focus on the plot. And gameplay is identical to D1 and D2. So maybe I shouldn't give you this one afterall.
-Arcade-style health orbs.
Hmm.. I'm pretty sure Diablo 2 had those as well. Potion clickfest - hmm THAT was the fun part that I remember loving and coming back to Diablo 2 for. /sarcasm
-No attribute customization.
Illusion of choice > meaningful choice. I understand. /sarcasm
-No skill points.
Illusion of choice > meaningful choice. I understand. /sarcasm
-Paying real money for game advancement = cheating. "
go to www.ebay.com. Look for Diablo 2 & "unique item name". See how much they are going for. Then google 'Diablo 2 Items Buy'. My point is - you are barking up the wrong tree. Paying real money for game advancement has been a part of Diablo since Battle.Net came online. They just changed the venue. Sounds like you preferred the old venue because it wasn't right in front of your face? Here's an idea. Avert your eyes. Done.
All these complaints I keep reading over and over and over have ZERO to do with what made Diablo universe so great - the story, the game play, the thrill of seeing an orange item drop from a boss kill. Lets take a look at Diablo 3. Story? (probably) check. Game play? Check. Uniques? Double-plus-check. Either grow up or don't buy the game. VERY simple.
Posting from work, so need this disclaimer:
"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
AnnonymousCoward - Wednesday, September 7, 2011 - link
gnesterenko,-You apparently can't see the value of an offline mode, and associate it with cheating. Look around; nobody is saying they want an offline mode so they can cheat. Reliable internet access isn't in all parts of the world. It may be on your fridge, but is it in all countries? Or remote places in the US? Or if you go on a business trip, do you necessarily have internet access where you stay? And aside from access, do you get the same lag-free experience online as offline? (hint, the answers are no, no, no, no.) This has nothing to do with wanting to cheat.
-Ahnilated said "If you thinks a 200-300ms ping is ok to play a game then you are too old and slow." You respond "This isn't an FPS where 10ms difference..." Why are you talking about 10ms? He said 200-300ms. Your response doesn't even make sense. 200-300ms indeed makes a huge difference in any realtime game.
-You're wrong again: D2 did not have arcade-style health orbs. Potions that regenerate life are very different, and are used commonly in medieval worlds.
-I'm not looking for any particular mod. But mods are great, and I love playing what the creative community comes up with.
-Attribute and skill customization is not an illusion of choice. It's a real choice. You can invest in more strength to wear higher defense armor, or you can increase your hit points. Dex buys blocking, attack accuracy, defense, and the ability to equip some weapons. Boosting mana lets you cast expensive spells more repetitively. There are all sorts of trade offs. If you can't recognize that, it's due to your own lack of awareness. I've probably created 30 D2 characters in the last 10 years.
-Call it "changing the venue of cheating" if you want. The problem is, it's making cheating part of the game, while not even calling it cheating.
-This all doesn't have "ZERO to do with what made Diablo universe so great". The atmosphere of D1 made it great; D3's art direction kills that. LAN/offline made it great; laggy online-only kills that for some people. A thousand combinations of class building made it great; having no skill/attribute customization hurts that.
Degrin - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link
D3 is looking great!-Constant Internet connection will help combat cheating and piracy. Little to no downside since beta testers have already reported that the server lag that existed to in D2 is basically non-existant D3. The number of gamers without a net connection is so small that the benefits of this outweigh the costs.
-No mods is really a preference. I happen to prefer no mods as long as the standard UI is good. Mods open too many doors to cheaters, which can be a HUGE problem as we saw with D1 and D2. Then Blizz has to dedicate time and money to combat mod exploits and such. Also, D3 is a rather "simple" and "arcade style" game when compared to something like WOW. So custom UI mods are not as beneficial.
-Bad art? Not sure where you are getting that from...
-Overuse of special effects...on some skills I may agree with you, but id have to play the game to make a judgement on this one.
-Health orbs....oh yes this is terrible, You are so right, I would much rather be spamming pots with my number keys... /sarcasm.
-No attribute customization, this was pretty cookie cutter in D2. Sure it was exciting to get new points when you level up, but eventually it just became a chore to pump attributes every level.
-No skill points. Again, skill points end up being cookie cutter. Now you dont need to re-roll every time you want to try a new build. Now you can be inventive and try new builds that may work or be fun to play. In D2, you had to reroll a whole character to do this. Come to think of it...this alone gets me excited about the game.
-Paying real money for in-game advancement. This can't be avoided...period. The only true way to combat this is to make items BOE. This just isn't the Diablo model. RMAH will not be as bad as everyone is making it out to be because it will be available to everyone. As long as drop rates are done right, the demand on the AH will HEAVILY outweigh the supply keeping scarcity and therefore prices high.
junk430 - Sunday, September 4, 2011 - link
Gaming people hear us. I represent your educated target audience. We don't like where things are going. We don't want to pay $60 for a game like these with no community support, wants us to pay for upgrades, be online to play, been thrown together and feel like the #1 deciding factor in the development of the game is it's revenue/risk ratio.We want a game that continues to offer value beyond the initial purchase. Sadly I feel the golden age for the user comunity has set for major titles. Half Life was the apex and we are now on the right hand side of the bell curve. Think about the value that game has given us. The studios only see "look how much profit we missed out on by letting the mod comunity give away stuff built on top of our game".
I'm posting on my iPhone and kind of ran out of steam for my rant... And knowing it falls on deaf ears. What ever... This is why I buy so few games in the past couple years. I think the COD games really pushed it over the top. In years past the "new" COD games would be add on packs, xbox even got us used to paying $20 for a map pack! As I was typing this I was thinking about what I have purchased and enjoyed lately and almost all the titles have been indy or small house games. Torch Light, space pirates and zombies, cut the rope, dungeon 1/2 come to mind. I've also enjoyed many of the $1-5 games I've got on my iPhone.
One thing about Diablo, why didn't they milk us for more expansion packs? They could have taken me to the BANK on these! I would have happily bought every pack they felt like putting out! They really missed a cash cow there.
jimhsu - Monday, September 5, 2011 - link
The new Deus Ex and Skyrim (hopefully) are exceptions (to the idea that all blockbusters these days are generic rehashes), but I do emphasize with your point. Unfortunately as the Escapist explains it in a series of videos, it's less than "there are no new ideas out there" then "publishers simply can't, from a profitability aspect, take risks with new games that allows the type of games we saw in the 90s and early 00's". The economics of game development nowadays doesn't allow for that type of risk-tasking we saw, with developing teams ballooning into the hundreds and production budgets comparable to major Hollywood movies.TL;DR: So yes, the next frontier is indie games. It remains to be seen whether big-budget studios will take the successful ideas from those (e.g. Minecraft) and build something around it.
ascian5 - Sunday, September 4, 2011 - link
I understand the hate on auction houses, but are people just completely in the dark on D2? Online sites selling items were EVERYWHERE. Everything people are complaining that auction houses will ruin, was and is completely available in D2.While bringing it to the mainstream will certainly make such item procurement more mainstream.... it seems like a necessary evil to me. There are plenty of free2play games that have similar systems in place, and by legitimizing it and keeping a form of control and security in place, it seems like the right direction to me.
Heaven forbid a company make money on the product they produce. I don't understand this "universal constant" that gamers seem to apply to companies. i.e. "In the past we've only had to buy 1 product for X amount and that's the way it always has to be." As a consumer, I hate opening my wallet as much as the next guy, or more as my wife would say, but seriously... grow up.
There are certainly a plethora of instances where companies purposefully milk this evolving business model *cough* Capcom *cough* but that doesn't mean we need to cry foul over any instance where we are given the OPTION to spend more on a product. That's not even getting into instances where extra content would previously have been omitted, eternally left on the cutting room floor, or never even produced in the first place.
As for the online connectivity... I just don't have sympathy for people complaining about this here. For another game, in other circumstances, sure, OK. But if you're not playing Diablo as an online-multiplayer game... you're not playing Diablo.
ascian5 - Sunday, September 4, 2011 - link
Terribly worded post, forgive me. Silly cell phones wreak havoc on my ability to type legible sentences.LordanSS - Monday, September 5, 2011 - link
I am going to comment only on your online connectivity, make this short(er).I started out playing Diablo 1 with my friends, back in the late 90s. We'd all connect to Battle.net and play together. Back then, B.net worked mostly as a lobby of sorts, allowing the players to easily connect to each other. Considering all we had was dialup back in those days (at least here), it worked fine.
Then came Diablo 2... and for me and my friends, playing online through B.Net was no longer a possibility. Since, apparently, the traffic between the clients now had to go through their servers, it added crazy lag/latency to our games, making it unplayable. Thankfully, we had the option to directly connect, in-game, using our IP addresses, which allowed us to play together once again (mostly) fine.
That's not going to happen with Diablo 3, though. Everything being through B.Net now, and the way it's set up... not going to work. For customers in the US and most European countries, I suppose it wouldn't be an issue. But for the likes of me, living in South America, with no local servers (and even if we did have servers here, depending on their location, performance would be very poor due to bad Internet infrastructure) makes it a no go.
I suppose, this time, and and my friends won't be trying this one... besides, I think this style of game has long lost it's appeal to most of us anyways, heh.
LazyBoyTony - Monday, September 5, 2011 - link
Its not going to be an issue with Broadband. A 200-300ms ping to the USA is plenty fine for online play.At least with battle.net play you don't have to deal with cheaters with server charactors.
Ahnilated - Monday, September 5, 2011 - link
If you thinks a 200-300ms ping is ok to play a game then you are too old and slow. People can run into a room and have rounds on the way to you in that amount of time before you even see them.gnesterenko - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
This isn't an FPS where 10ms difference can mean victory over defeat or vice versa. It's an RPG. A PVE-centric RPG. You are complaing in the wrong forum.Posting from work, so need this disclaimer:
"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
cmdrdredd - Monday, September 5, 2011 - link
SO I don't have the right to play a game by myself? Unless I'm online I'm not doing it right? Screw that and quite frankly screw you. The industry has become so greedy it's only rivaled by Hollywood. Single player games are still a huge staple of the gaming scene, in fact I'd say more so than online.Ahnilated - Monday, September 5, 2011 - link
I agree 100%, no one tells me that I have to be online to play a game and that I have to play by their rules. If I want to cheat or play by myself and offline I should be able too. I don't care how they try to rationalize it, I will NOT buy a game that requires you to be online to play. There have been numerous examples where the game servers go down for over a week and people are screwed not being able to play.gnesterenko - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
Don't worry. There will be hacked servers up running in no time and you can go right ahead and torrent the game as you painfully obviously wanted to. Just like WoW - plenty of pirate servers up for that - no reason to pay Blizzard anything for their massive investment. You just wont be able to play on Blizzards servers. So I dont follow what your problem is. Theres a place for everyone and everyone will be in their place.Posting from work, so need this disclaimer:
"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
prophet001 - Thursday, September 8, 2011 - link
Agree 100%. Except maybe the screw you part. lolv12v12 - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
"RE: Art by AnnonymousCoward on Saturday, September 03, 2011D3 is not looking good.
-Constant Internet connection required.
-No mod community due to no offline mode.
-Bad art direction and overuse of special effects.
-Arcade-style health orbs.
-No attribute customization.
-No skill points.
-Paying real money for game advancement = cheating."
^^^^THIS 100%
I too agree 100%!!!^1000 I WILL NOT BUY A GAME REQUIRING ONLINE CONNECTION.
Come on people THINK DEEPER than just ^^^^... This all "online" stuff is about STUDYING your BEHAVIOR! Yes Blizz and other groups use these games and their demonstrated economies as actual UNIVERSITY level economics models... I know a professor that teaches a class about WoW and it's a highly sought after course! Marketing groups, GOVERNMENT and many other private sales & advertising groups use data gathered via these "games" to use in market prediction models for what people will want to "experience" next or what they'll more than likely purchase next, bc of XYZ,ABC factors. The DATA you and I provide for them (which we PAID them to collect) is worth literally BILLIONS of dollars vs. very expensive private 3rd groups that focus on the economics and logistics of the "consumer," aka SHOPPING CATTLE. "CONSUMER..." Listen to that; are you a MINDLESS "CONSUMER???" Or a PERSON with a CHOICE aka "customer."
Most of the news/internet/corp "media" refers to ALL of us as "CONSUMERS," just listen to any news post regarding the economy and shopping. They NEVER SAY "CUSTOMERS." "Consumer rights" groups???? CATTLE HAVE NO RIGHTS... Just keep shopping and spending your hard earned dollars +tax+tax+tax+taxes RISING THIS IS REAL PEOPLE! :-//// Lol.
I will NOT be purchasing Diablo III based on the many above listed issues aka "features." I've been playing Diablo since the Days I got a copy from a friend on a 1x Sony golden CDR in 1996-7! After 2 weeks, I went and purchased the WHOLE treasure cheat pack thing with all the expansions; I STILL play Diablo II to this day, which I purchased as well, even after a "trail" copy from a friend.... But sadly the GAME IS OVER for the "Diablo" series... The typical greed and corruption virus has infected another amazing start up and now they are
TOO BIG TO LISTEN to... CUSTOMERS! Hahah ain't that some shite? Blizzard's sorry ARSE is TOO BIG TO LISTEN to the CUSTOMERS who MADE YOU - YOU DUMB NERDS! No more of my cash for you!
Srsly wtf kind of "business" literally starts from the ground up making HARDCORE and seriously scary releases to then end up JUST LIKE the other "online only," "pay to cheat/front skills" mentality? Folks that cheated on DI/II servers were LAUGHED OFF THE SERVERS. Hell I know bc I was in a fscking BOTTING group; we had GODLY items all the time... Know what we did with them? GAVE THEM AWAY TO NOOBS as we upgraded... So what, some of them sold SOJs on ebay for $5... big whooooop. But now... "Diablo III" looks so dang graphically LAME and WoWified, it's a DEAD HORSE..... Blizzard you guys may be rich, but you're stupid asses regarding any shred of "humanity," respect, honesty, nor TRUST. GOOD Job MBA dorks... everyone hates you, ONLY your EGO and envious sellouts grovel to your patheticness... You'll die just like the rest of us... WITH NOTHING lol haha
gnesterenko - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
Careful man, you aren't wearing your tinfoil hat.Seriously, if you think DIABLO is the main or worst venue of people collecting data about you then... well jesus don't ever actually read into all the ways they are collecting data about you because you probably will never want to leave the house again. Or pay bills. Or have a bank account. In fact, best to go out to live in the woods and always use only cash or barter for your economic interactions.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like it either. But I'm also a realist. This is the brave new world we live in. Adapt or get left behind.
Posting from work, so need this disclaimer:
"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."
tunapez - Thursday, September 8, 2011 - link
"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."You sure about that? You really do sound like you are somehow vested in this game.
wizdum - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
The Auction House in D3 is absolutely no different than the Auction House in WoW or Diablo 2: eBay. All Blizzard is doing is bringing what happened anyway outside of the game, the selling of in-game items and character on eBay or MMOBay, into the game and incorporating it as a game experience. If you didn't realize people were selling items, gold, and characters on eBay since Diablo 2, you either didn't play WoW or Diablo 2, or you were too noob to realize you could go buy a Windforce, the strongest bow in D2, on eBay within weeks or Diablo 2 being released. I legitimately found a Windforce in D2, but at the same time I have no problem with people selling their stuff on eBay either. Also, keep in mind, you can't just buy Diablo 3 and then go buy a Godfather Colossus Blade with your Visa and use it in Act 1 normal mode. To even have the level requirement to wield the Godfather, you would have had to played through the entire game at least twice, and be on Hell mode to have the proper level reqs to equp it. So, you may call it 'cheating,' and maybe it is, but you can't 'cheat' unless you play through the game entirely in the first place. You all need to take a deep breath and enjoy what they are making for you. If you don't like it, I really don't give a fuck.. go play Torchlight.AnnonymousCoward - Wednesday, September 7, 2011 - link
"All Blizzard is doing is bringing what happened anyway outside of the game"Exactly: OUTSIDE of the game. That's the whole problem. The gold-based auction house is fine, because it complies within the game world. You trade with other warriors equipment you found for their gold, or vice versa. Once you introduce real dollars, it's suddenly cheating, because it has nothing to do with the game world.
"but you can't 'cheat' unless you play through the game entirely in the first place."
That doesn't make sense. All sorts of items will be for sale, not just super high level items.
mcrandy - Tuesday, September 6, 2011 - link
Amazing comments from the peanut gallery.Lets face it that Diablo 1 2 or 3 is the best thing ever to be made in gaming. So whining about Auction House's or bright lites or playing online is just for the weak knee people.
Big deal if you have in house auction and give a little back to Blizzard for making such a great game. If you don't like that then use the gold auction house thats why its there.
People don't want mods they want to be able to bot the place up and now that they can't they are sniveling.
Get the game and play it and THEN you can start wetting your pants. In the meantime its time for the "girlie-men" to step aside and let the REAL heroes save the world.
P_O_E - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link
I just got my Diablo 3 Beta! Im so exited! Thanks http://owner.azok.org/